One of the few things I am thankful for of Sylvanas killing Saurfang is that it prevented your exact suggestions from happening. The last thing the Night Elves need right now is to be blamed for the faction war continuing, and frankly, the last thing I want to see is a new warmonger for the Horde to chew onto because they lost Jaina and Genn as their go-to for wanting to kill Alliance aggressors. For in practicality all this would do is promote more “When are you going to get over Teldrassil?” rug sweeping and actually allow people to put less thought into the burning because all they would care about now would be Tyrande being mean, damn the context of why.
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That’s a fair protest, but the alternative, which we’re getting right now, is a continuation of the night elves as being the milquetoast Horde punching bags who roll over for the Alliance’s appeals for peace every time. Tyrande gave in to the Horde gathering lumber at the end of MoP by handing over Azshara (the zone), essentially making all the nelf deaths in that zone pointless. At this point, the nelves have suffered the most (bar maybe the humans, but at least the humans got some vindication) at the hands of the Horde.
Yes, killing Saurfang would have been “mean”, but there’s many ways the writing could be spun to emphasize that it wasn’t his death which alone extends the faction war, but it’s rather simply symptomatic of the long-simmering resentment and hatred which would have bubbled within the Alliance and lead to its eventual dissolution/civil conflict (at this point, the Alliance has FAR FAR FAR more reason to attack the Horde and try to destroy it than the Horde EVER did, and the Horde’s the one who attacked in the first place!).
What other solution do you see for the night elves’ consistent toothlessness problem which would be so meaningful? Hypothetically, at least.
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Having her participate in a genoice WOULD be giving her the villain bat.
Except of course those Darkshore quests she sends the player on.
Here is a hypothetical they could still do:
For the Horde PC:
Receive a call to come to the counsel for a mission. When they arrive the leaders are talking about the last message they received from Ashenvale detailing the Night Elves having pushed the Horde forces out of Darkshore and into Ashenvale and nothing since. The PC is then sent to relay a message to all the Horde bases in Ashenvale that they are to withdraw from Ashenvale. When the PC visits each of the bases they find only bodies.
For the Alliance PC:
The PC receives a call to Stormwind Keep. There they find most of the leaders discussing the treaty. The PC is tasked with delivering news of the wars end and treaty discussions to Tyrande. The PC then arrives in Darkshore to be informed that Tyrande is with the front line. The PC follows direction meeting scouts along the way showing the path they took. When the PC finally catches up to Tyrande it is at a camp on the boarder of Azshara. In the conversation you could have her say something to the effect of: ‘What, you did not think we would be idle?’
Essentially show both the new leadership of the Horde willing to completely withdraw from Ashenvale. And at the same time, show that the Night Elves were far from toothless.
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I think the Draenei are up there when it comes to body count inflicted by the Horde if you count the background on Draenor.
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Yeah if you take back story in to account draenei suffered more the humans won their wars the draenei lost.
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There are no Darkshore quests in 8.3 and the context of peace between the Horde and the Alliance as far as I’ve seen so far. Just a reference to Hyjal.
I have proposed too many “solutions” involving the Horde trying to make amends with the Night Elves this expansion, and none of them were ever close to coming to pass. While Merìngue makes a suitable enough proposal, I do not see even that happening.
I foresee all focus staying on Sylvanas, as that’s the only plot thread Blizzard seems interested in dangling. That’s all BfA has been in its entirely. Sylvanas escaping at Lordaeron. All of the Horde’s efforts in their War Campaign being undone so the war makes no progress in either direction. Jaina and Anduin giving the Zandalari time to grieve instead of ending the war. The Nazjatar trap to undo the Alliance’s advantages. Sylvanas running away again at Orgrimmar. It’s all been for no reason other than to prolong and draw out Sylvanas secret plot that Blizzard in thinking this “suspense” is good writting has so heavily invested in and disregarded everything else.
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The Boralus NPC’s express without doubt their doubts on any peace with the Horde being a lasting one.
I vaguely recall a thread of suggestions to “fix” the War Campaign
My idea was to have Tyrande be the star of the Alliance side. No Horde/Alliance team up. Handwave the Night Elves retaking Ashenvale offscreen, and have the Army of the Black Moon launch an attack on Orgrimmar taking advantage of the internal strife of the Horde (no “Sylvanas has the majority” nonsense).
Then once both Horde and Alliance make it to Sylvanas and she inevitably gets away, Tyrande settles the score with the other War Criminal.
Anduin’s Peace-loving can be used against him by Warmongers who join the Alliance. The fact that the Horde lost most of it’s warmongers means little since clever enough Alliance Warmongers can fake a Horde attack well enough to get Anduin kicked out!
If any high-ranking Alliance Member is a Necromancer(or Death Knight) of great power then he can use fake Forsaken as pretext to oust Anduin and set up a more preferred King… Obviously not the Necromancer himself but someone who is willing to cross the line and blow up worlds!
Doesn’t work. Few problems.
First, the Alliance is just that, an Alliance. Tyrande proves that. You can’t replace a single leader and just do whatever with the whole Alliance. Other leaders have to be convinced. You may be mistaken because of the strong position of Stormwind. But that is fairly normal in Alliances. The nation with the largest military typically leads during military conflicts. And that is Stormwind. But the rest of the Alliance is not mandated to follow. And the same would be the case if Anduin was replaced. Which brings us to…
Second, you can’t vote Anduin out of anything. He is the King of Stormwind. It is an inherited position, not a voted one. Stormwind would stay under his authority even if the rest of the Alliance decided to go against what he wanted.
And thirdly, just an undead does not really make a Forsaken. There are a lot of undead that are not aligned with them. There are a lot of options to determine the source. It would take more to pull of a good fake. And the whole endeavor would be a very high risk event.
Blizzard decides whether or not a coup that gets Anduin dethroned as King of Stormwind(and replaced with someone who can get Gilneas and Stromgarde on his side) would work.
Blizzard decided that the coup leading to Sylvanas’s ascension as Warchief in favor of the Villain would work so what makes you think they won’t set up the rise of an Evil Alliance leader of Stormwind the same way!?!
It would of course more easily work if the Nobles were persuaded(easy to do considering they care about themselves and not the people and thus can be bribed into backing a candidate) regardless of Jaina’s protests.
Even more so if House Wrynn turns out to have usurped the throne from a rightful King sealed away in stasis for some reason!
The Draenei leadership don’t have to back this new(or old if the Necromancer wants to pull the same stunt as Zul) king nor does Shandris or Moria. Only Gilneas and Stromgarde need follow this king.
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Which is not Tyrande putting resources against the rest of the Horde when she’s just focusing on Sylvanas.
That is true overall, but the other alliance leaders could remove him from the position of ‘high king’. And they should frankly with there no longer needing to be an alliance mirror to the Warchief.
Outside that we don’t really know much about the Stormwind Government but it is in theory possible for the house of lords to dethrone him if the kingdom is a constitutional monarchy.
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Wait, let me get this straight. You proposed a hypothetical that has no connection to anything Blizzard has said or done. Then when I point out logical fallacies (based on lore Blizzard has established) with it you pull out the ‘Blizzard decides what happens.’ Umm…
Umm, what? Are we doing fan-fic now?
Look, your suggestion has no logical constancy with established lore. I am sorry, it just doesn’t fit. There is really no chance Blizzard is going to do anything like it.
But, Blizzard has already said the ‘High King’ title is honorary and just for military purposes. It is not a dictator position like the Warchief was. And it actually fits with historical context. Stormwind has the largest military in the Alliance. That means Stormwind is likely to more influence in strategic planning. That is just how it works. But no group has to do what he says. The ‘High King’ title doesn’t really have any authority behind it.
We can make a pretty effective educated guess that it is not. Look at the history of the Stonemasons. Or the fact that Onyxia tried to control Bolvar instead of using her position among the nobles to put a loyalist (or herself) directly in charge. Or the fact that Anduin was not replaced while he was a little kid. While we can’t 100% say it is not a constitutional monarchy, we have zero indicator that it is. And we have some pretty strong hints that it is not. So, right now the best assumption based on the evidence is that it is a hereditary. And we can be pretty confident of that as anything else would raise a lot of questions or require at least a boarder-line retcon.
That is true, but particularly during Before the Storm Anduin very much was dictatorial in his authority level. The other leaders served more as advisors, and even if they disagreed he would just say “This is what we are doing. No Arguments.” That sort of apparent authority is what they need to divest him of, and they arguably are with how Tyrande is acting and his inability to reign her in.
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Its interesting to me reading this thread. The criticism of Anduin is honestly fairly justified. He has sort of consumed the Alliance in his personal narrative; and while he honestly would serve perfectly fine as a “Coming of Age” style King of SW … his presence as HIGH King continues to sort of hamstring Alliance variety.
On the other hand, IMO, both Genn and Tyrande have sort of invalidated themselves as a replacement for such a position; IF such a position need exist. Genn’s actions in Stormheim were atrocious. I appreciate that he stopped Sylvie, but if looked at through an objective lens it makes him appear unstable; incapable of seeing the bigger picture; and willing to use FACTION military assets in personal vendettas. Tyrande in contrast (as justified as I believe she was in this choice) prioritized the immediate needs of her people over long term needs of the ENTIRE Alliance war effort in this conflict. She risked so much for a single piece of terrain on the other side of the world that had little strategic value at that point in the war; and her incursion would have resulted in ABSOLUTE disaster if not for Sylvie playing games and the Night Warrior.
IMO … IF there needs to be someone in a High King-esk position … Muradin is just about the only one I would trust on the Alliance side. The Dwarven Kingdoms have entered an era of stability; Few Alliance leaders have lead in more joint-nation military ops than him; and he’s removed enough from recent tragedies to remain objective enough to make the hard calls.
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What about Velen? He has more experience leading than literally every other leader on the planet combined outside of like… old gods.
Then again there was that time in Icecrown but we don’t talk about that.