[SPOILER] Is Baine key to Redemption for the Horde?

Lore Story Forum
403

What? No, no, no.

No.

They’ll be Azerite bombs. Completely different.

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I would actually put communists with the Alliance now, now that the Alliance has Void Elves, Umbris actually going out of his way to murder civilian high-society for the mere insult of living the good life, I think Horde is more the capitalist notion, what with the biggest capitalist race to ever exist part of their roster: Goblins.

I mean, I like the Horde for its facets, One day I could play a honorable savage who sees honor in riping out the spine of his enemy, or collecting their skulls. Another day I can play a antagonistic Forsaken who enjoys experimenting on himself and others, whose sense of humor comes from hurting others, who’s mind has become a little fragmented, considering his violent death, another day I can be a merciless businessman who enjoys suckering other Horde members out of their hard-earned moolah and other days I can play a elf of high society, intelligent and old, who wields powerful magics at their fingertips.

You do not have that type of dichotomy among the Alliance, yes, there is a range, but they are always ‘good’, which I call bs on, but that is what the story is trying to spin us right now. I actually preferred it when stuff was not thrown under the rug, where you could RP a villainous Alliance character without being a villain to the Alliance. They took a step in the right direction with the Dark Iron, who have been shown to be cruel and merciless in battle, as we have seen in Dazar’alor, even though a lot of Alliance fanboys try to excuse it through hypocritical means that all could be used to justify Teldrassil, which people like me get chastized for using.

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405

After Teldrassil? Yes, absolutely. They’d feel justified.

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I meant in the way that Communist philosophically relates to the individual. RE Forsaken, and the Horde, both have always been more about the good of the group over that of individuals. I didn’t mean to make a one-to-one comparison.

Though, yes, Goblins are basically AnCap Macgyvers. Although, one could argue the “principles” of capitalism are only really held by Gallywix. He basically enslaves people to do the work, even though he benefits from their labor. So that “libertarianism” and “individualism” aren’t really there. (An aside: I think the evidence is mounting that Gallywix is two-timing the Horde on Azerite.)

I don’t know what you’re referring to RE Umbric though. Would love to see what you’re talking about.

Yes, the writing of the Alliance is very…pristine. Although, I mean, Genn did attempt to assassinate the Horde warchief last expac and no one seems to take that seriously. I think it’s just that most Alliance players ignore their factions evils because they aren’t as “in your face.” I’d say there’s a parallel there with American perception of the US.

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After Teldrassil, some among the Alliance would feel justified if they dropped a zone nuke on Mulgore and made dwarven style bbq out of tauren infants. Of course it would simply pull them all down to Sylvanas Horde level of villainy. Eye for an eye only leaves the world blind, as Ghandi once said.

But try telling them that. I think a lot of Alliance players would accept stepping off the morality perch if it meant a chance to really stick it to the Horde.

408

If the WoW humans resembled anything like real life humans.
The Horde would already be dismantled and most of the Orcs and trolls would be on the brink of extinction.
The forsaken would obviously be completely eradicated.

As for moral justification?
Oh hell yeah.
Wipe them out; You put down rabid dogs.

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See what I mean? :slight_smile:

Blizzard, you’re obviously not paying attention to your fanbase! Alliance players are acting more like what you think Horde should be lately.

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I agree, but i also think it would be in-character for the NPCs to start making mana bombs at this stage.

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I am referring to the War Campaign where you are out to assassinate Gallywix with Umbric, he hates how the people in his pleasure palace are rich and enjoy life and thusly tells us to murder him, which the ‘Hero’ does.

I put ‘pristine’ and ‘good’ and ‘heroes’ in quotation marks for the main purpose that when the Horde does a bad, it is immediately dragged kicking and screaming in the spotlight and used to villain bat whoever did it. When the Alliance does a bad, the quest is done and no one mentions it again, ever. Not quests, not NPCs, not books.

I call that bad writing, to overlook such obvious evils just to make the Alliance feel like they are justified standing on their soapboxes preaching about how murdering innocent civilians is evil when they have done so again and again and again. Taurajo, Pandaria, Dazar’alor, Death Camps and hey, let us point out the attempted genocides, like that one time where Jaina tried to drown all of Orgrimmar, including the little orphanage, but that is fine, I am sure some Alliance fanboy or Baine fanboy will claim that they were viable military targets. Or let us not forget that Genn voted for the complete genocide of all Orcs, women and children included.

I hate how the Alliance fanboys think they are so pristine, when the truth is: They aren’t, if you scratch a little past the surface past their shiny armor and their slavish devotion to the Light, you will find them just as capable of murder and genocide as the Horde.

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But they wouldn’t. The Alliance is the Superman faction.

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Not entirely. Granted I don’t see them making them as an overt part of their military, but I wouldn’t put it past some of them (Rogers) commissioning them.

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(shrug) I don’t see anything about mana bombs that would make them inherently off-limits. But the main thing is that it’s not the story the devs are interested in telling, so it won’t happen regardless.

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I don’t see anything wrong about weaponizing azerite or the sha, but the Alliance was against both ideas. They’re not going to weaponize a symbol of their ally’s trauma.

The Alliance is a superhero faction. You need to see their story through that lens.

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416

I think by the end of this expansion or the next, we’ll see the Alliance thrown through the grinder.

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Er, the Alliance has Azerite war machines.

Also, unlike the Sha, who are manifestations of negative emotions, or for that matter fel magic, there’s nothing, for lack of a better term, “spiritually dangerous” about mana bombs or Azerite (well, unless they reveal something new about Azerite). It’s just power.

I don’t think even Jaina would mind paying back her trauma with a mana bomb dropped on top of Sylvanas.

Dude, I main Alliance right now. (They let me raid.) I agree there are things the Alliance would find morally repugnant; I just don’t think mana bombs are one of them.

418

At this point, Baine should just join the Alliance.

Even his own people cling to the idea of Taurajo being some unforgivable massacre they use to justify fighting the Alliance when it’s obvious the Alliance did everything possible to let the civilians go.

And with almost all the rest of the Horde leadership operating under the mindset of ‘let’s worry about morality after we’ve won and taken over the world,’ there’s pretty much nothing left of Thrall’s Horde or its ideals anymore so why is he still bothering?

He’s clinging to this idea of an honorable Horde that disappeared a long time ago. So unless he finally grows a spine and snaps Sylvanas’, he’s just wasting his time.

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419

Because Blizz is trying to sell him to the Horde as some hero, which I resent. Bainduin Bloodwrynn isn’t Horde, he is a traitor who would deny his own people their rightful vengeance and banishes them for these desires and tries to excuse the slaughter of Taurajo by claiming it was a legitimate military target, a place that trained young Tauren to be hunters and warriors to hold back Quillboar, with most of the soldiers having been gone on some sort of raid or other before they attacked a mostly civilian town, and those ‘escape routes’ led deep into Quillboar territories, those that used these escape paths, most died, so don’t give me that, also the entire thing that he hired Wildhammer to set fire to the entire village. Alliance have never been ‘superheroes’, they are just hypocrites, the same way ‘honorbois’ are which is why these people like Baine and Saurfang, both are hypocrites, that preach honor, but lack it themselves.

For one, Honorbois are the, ironically, the fascist ones even though they claim everyone else who does not agree with them are fascists and need to die, but then fascists do like to call other people fascists, seems to be a popular trend these days. And I say that, because these are the people who are all like: You either conform to what -I- believe is right, or you die. A typical Alliance viewpoint, which is why I believe that Honorbois and Baine supporters should just roll Alliance and be done with it.

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We get it, you’re edgy and like playing darker characters … (though the Orc, Forsaken, and Goblin you described are kind of all horrible people tbh). One that revels in violence for the sake of it; one that finds joy in the torment and suffering of others; and one that exploits everyone around him. Only the elf seemed like a person who could function as an actual person (with social relations). :smile:

Also, Taurajo was a legitimate military target, they were training Warriors and Hunters for the Horde. To say otherwise is disingenuous, Theramore was just as valid a target as Taraujo. Hawthorne also DID try to spare the civilians, but lost control of two conscript units and failed in his negotiations with the Quilboars. For that (and despite his intentions) he and all his men were slaughtered by the Horde, and justice was served for that tragedy. Its done and over with.

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I like playing all kinds of characters and Orcs have always been described as savage but honorable, they were always people who saw honor in combat and conquest. But yeah, my Forsaken and my Goblin are meant to be douchebags, one who was not raised by the Lich king and the Scourge, but by Sylvanas after he was torn apart by a Goblin Bomb in the Foothills, expecting someone to be sane after that is quite dumb, so yeah, he isn’t sane. As for my Goblin, he is the type of person to sell out his own mother, if it gives him a profit. Most goblins ARE that way. What you need to realize is that most my characters are built from the cornerstones of each race, their good points and their bad points included. And my Elf, supports this war, because she is a Nightborne who has seen that the Alliance (Tyrande) are nothing more then hypocrites who dress in shiny armor and like to pretend to be heroes. But she saw Tyrande wanting to let refugees die and use them as meatshields.

And no, it wasn’t, they trained young tauren to be hunters and to combat the Quillboar, they weren’t really soldiers perse. The ACTUAL soldiers there were mostly gone when Hawthorne attacked, meaning that Taurajo was mostly civilian and that he then burned it down right afterwards. And Hawthorne might have been killed for it, but there are many others in the Alliance who did as he did: Rogers? Murdering surrendering Orc forces? Genn? Advocating for the genocide of a entire race? Jaina? Attempting to drown all of Orgrimmar for Garrosh destroying her legitimate military target? Shaw? Blaming the Horde for Varian’s death, when it was his fault for being such a shoddy spy? Tyrande? Wanting all of the Horde dead even though it was traitorfang who spared Malfurion and her life? I can go on if you wish.

I resent being called edgy for simply making a character that fits into the lore, who would have a justifiable dark past and be shaped by that past. In a world where WAR and nigh destruction happens almost every year.

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He is the non toxic male from Golden, he will try to solve anything without violence and marry with Anduin, that is the whole goal of Golden