Speedrunning is killing this game

Community General Discussion
1

Trying to tank pre 120 BfA dungeons when the group again, for like the umpteenth time, decided it would be a good idea to pull for me, mid fight, again.

UR, started with me pulling and killing the 2 straglers and moving onto the first mob while I waited for the group to wake up and join me, made our way down the right side with one death and almost a wipe, healer has no mana and while I ask if he wants mana I see him tanking the boss.

Kill the boss and move onto the next mob while the healer rushes ahead and pulls more, still with no mana and a half dead team.

Few things, we had a mage who put a table and a warlock who did not put some healthstones, so we had food, but no emergency healing unless they brought thei… ahaha who am I kidding, no one brings potions for pugs.

Now what would you guys do? Run ahead with no mana and players needing health, or stop for even 10 seconds while players eat some food and the healer gets some mana?

Well I done what I am always going to do for pugs, I got up and left. Everyone these days is all about going fast, this is not a race, we are not even level 120. Players these days, all they want to do is be number 1, rush through the content without a second thought, saddens me to see it come to this.

43 Likes
2

Non-end game content speed is king, period. The line is when people die it slows down stuff worse than taking it slower, so that has to be managed.

I also don’t tank anything until Legion, I don’t know those dungeons well enough and some are simply horrible (Wailing Caverns is a total slog). Once you hit Legion, maximize invasions and then in BfA chain run islands and soon incursions…

Frankly tanking pre Mythic+ is dead already. It is not the optimal way to level up.

3 Likes
3

I’d rather it be this than spend 3 hours in there tbh. I ran dire maul with a tank who pulled like one at a time and it took over an hour. Next one, same thing. Left, queued 30 min later, and still finished the dungeon quicker with a “pull everything” group. (PLEASE stop putting me in Dire Maul).

4 Likes
4

But it is if you need gear to get into M+. And did you not read the whole post, the part about us almost wiping BEFORE the boss? Or is it OK with you guys that you let your team die, make their own way back and continue on without them?

What happened to this game? Everything is all about M+ speed running, 1 hour raiding, We Are Number 1! What, after half an hour in queue you don’t want to spend 5 minutes longer in a dungeon? You would rather take the risk of dying and having an even longer time there?

I use all my defensive CD’s on the boss because the healer is not able to keep me alive without any mana, than he goes and pulls too much straight after and we have no fail safe, that is an almost guaranteed wipe.

10 Likes
5

I agree, it’s unfortunate. I’ve only ran the BfA dungeons once each and every time was a nonstop speedfest. It doesn’t help that these dungeons are literal mazes. I couldn’t have found my way back out of those places if I’d tried.

I don’t even bother running dungeons in WoW anymore, I get my fill of group content in FF14. It’s way more fun.

9 Likes
6

I do miss doing dungeons slower.

I did some Lich King time dungeons and they were much slower or maybe my tank was. It was really relaxing.

8 Likes
7

I try to pay attention to the healer’s mana myself, and stop and ask if I see it getting pretty low. I think it’s courtesy of a tank to do so, and more tanks should be mindful of it as well.

3 Likes
8

Remember when a single wipe resulted in people rage quitting? Seems like so long ago.

1 Like
9

What’s “killing the game” is something I’ve been calling Pseuo-elitism among the mediocre.
It happens in all facets of the game now, and it is easily the most disruptive thing I see day to day when pugging.
This notion comes from these players who think they are vastly better than they are watching streams and videos of people doing specific things in parts of the game, and those players think they can replicate what was done with no coordination or practice, and then when it goes wrong they leave or get toxic in other ways.

This cascades all the way down to properly trivial content like mentioned in the OP, but I will caution out about blaming just this for your example.

There are other reasons people may be looking to elevate the pace in leveling dungeons, and if you aren’t willing to, that’s your prerogative, but that doesn’t mean that those players are wrong either. The point of leveling is to gain experience, and the faster you do that, the better for most.

Anyway, your title is misleading and I’m sure there will be a lot of reaction to it, but competitive play is what is keeping this game alive, so quite the opposite. However, because that is the case, a higher proportion of players watch this competitive play and then think they can use elements of it in their mid grade endeavors.

THAT is the problem, if you ask me, and I don’t know how to solve it.
How do you get people to start being more realistic about the content they are engaged in and less high-strung when things don’t go exactly their way?
Its a problem that has always existed, but I’ve never seen it this bad with this particular incarnation.

16 Likes
10

I am just about done tanking with them and I have not even hit 120, and it is not just the speed running that is the issue.

Just got out of UR. first boss DPS stood in the crap, all the way to the second boss, DPS stood in the crap, no one but me picked up the ticks before they became ticks, hang on hang on… MAH DPS! Healer stood in the way of charge, got belted against the wall and still stood there without moving, no one collected mushrooms on the 3rd boss, only one person knew what the light circle was on the 4th boss and only 2 of them attacked the adds.

For almost the entire dungeon I alm… no wait, I just checked my damage meters, I got more DPS than the rogue, almost more DPS than the hunter, more heals than the healer and aside from all my interrupts, the mage offered 2. The rogue? None.

I am the tank, the healer, the DPS and the guy that does all the mechanics so you don’t die, you want to speed run? Go do it without me and learn the mechanics first, not even the dungeon mechanics, DON’T STAND IN THE CRAP!

I am quitting before that even happens now, not worth the stress of baby sitting.

5 Likes
11

Drop group, try again later

2 Likes
12

Not really any point in doing mechanics in sub120 dungeons. Only chance of dying is if the healer is bad

13

I get with the no standing in crap thing but a lot of ppl who are new don’t know the mechanics . Maybe if you ask before engaging if they know what to do it would go better for everyone …

14

The rate that which you pull in dungeons is based on how much your healer can handle it. You also need to be aware of the mobs your pulling and what not.

I’ve seen people get impatient and start pulling more when I know that the group I pulled is a threat and need to be burned down asap.

However, the issue is multi-fold. Got people tanking that probably aren’t familiar with the role or possibly even the dungeon. Got the “go go go” people who also aren’t always familiar with the dungeon and overestimate their abilities. And then you got people who just aren’t familiar with the class they’re playing.

It is why I typically avoid dungeons when leveling.

2 Likes
15

And what is causing this pseudo-elitism? The speed running, no just M+, but the raiding that can be done in well under 2 hours. That is end game content, both facets, and players are running 370+ content in record times.

As for the experience, you need to think that there are 2 types of experience, that of the character level and that of your experience and what you touched on, players need to learn their own skill first, learn what they can do and better themselves before trying to replicate what the best players in the game can do.

Speed is not always better. I would rather spend 5 minutes longer in a dungeon to make sure no one dies, there are no wipes and we can all learn about what the dungeon offers and what to expect when we hit M+ levels.

Too many players even in M+ have no idea about mechanics, do no interrupts and stand in the crap like it is a normal dungeon.

No, just no. I am not talking about the boss mechanics, I am talking about things like the glowing green pool in UR which also gives a border around your screen, basically giving off warning signs that you are taking damage.

I cannot be stopping every fight and making sure players know what every enemy in the game can do and what to look out for, those basics of avoiding crap on the floor? That has been here for as long as I can remember and by the time you hit BfA you should know to avoid that.

I do ask for specific boss fights if players know what to do, if I ever do get a response and need to I will explain, like in Temple I always ask the healer if they are OK on the last boss, some of them have no idea what is going on there. Or the first boss in SoB, I ask if the ranged are OK with the fight.

But as for fights like the totem boss in Atal, for mythic only I ensure everyone knows to kill the totems at the same time, otherwise I am sure you can work out not to stand in the crap.

7 Likes
16

I had to let this roll around in my head a bit.

So what you’re saying is that the game that distinguished itself at launch from all the other offerings in a packed MMO market - by being casual-friendly - is now only surviving by pushing the hardcore elements of the game. And this is said with the full understanding (I assume, since you’re an MVP) that every other hardcore MMO has died off and that subscriber numbers for WoW are low enough that BlizzAct won’t even reveal them any longer.

I do not doubt that there is a very vocal element that demands hardcore elements and always will, but I would also strongly suggest that when it comes to MMOs, the people who demand things like forced PVP, hardcore PVE, and the abolishment of LFR are in the minority…and just maybe…that’s why the player base continues to check out?

15 Likes
17

I agree with Metrohaha. This behavior has been in the making since heirloom gear came about. Or at least that’s when I started noticing it the most. Summing it up to a lack of respect for tanks and healers and I think is a large contributor to our tank and healer shortages. No one wants to be called trash and ridiculed and completely disrespected in a video game they play for enjoyment so they say “F THHAAAT” before even getting a chance to shine. Which I completely understand and it’s sad.

3 Likes
18

That is what I am saying, yes.
Its no surprise the game is losing membership rapidly, yet the game saw its most successful media presence EVER most recently with the World First stream from Method’s various membership, including the GM Sco who had over 150k people watching, making him the #1 stream on twitch.

That is far to significant to ignore, but I understand most don’t care about that type of statistic.
Just realize that’s equating to MILLIONS of eyes on the game again for the first time in maybe ever, and events like that will be the reason the game stays afloat for years to come, provided they continue.

The game still is super casual friendly, but think about what being “casual” means. You aren’t as likely to be passionate, generate interest among your peers, and play regularly as others.
That’s what I would think of as a casual friendly experience though, and whether or not that makes them money, it does not advance the game, and because of such those are the first people to be here upset when something changes that doesn’t even really affect them.

19

Blame the dungeon nerf, and blame 7.3.5 where looms were nerfed. If not for that, players would get through those trivial dungeons like we use to. THEN when you hit level 100, you can have TWENTY levels to “Practice” tanking, or healing where the pace slows down a bit. Not much, but a bit. Because the players with the non nerfed looms can usually pull the group through the dungeons.

When the looms were PRE-7.3.5, there were far less complaints because players got that “trivial content” done, and on their way.

Im hoping that 8.1’s release has the XP buffs on launch, because questing will be the way to go, but i still wish they would revert the looms already, because their experiment is a total “fail” IMO.

If you do not want to level fast, you always had the option to not use the looms. Thats the part i dont get, punish the masses because others had no self control. Well that was their problem if they leveled to quickly using looms, its called personal responsibility, and its about time looms got reverted and players take responsibility for THEIR choices. If you level to fast with the looms, its your fault, and your fault alone, not the rest of the player bases!

2 Likes
20

And what is the real reason players are being called that? You do normals to learn the dungeon at a basic level, move to heroics when you are geared and comfortable and than onto M+ otherwise you get the groups that are out there and have no idea what the mechanics are and get ridiculed anyway.

Forget about your characters experience, YOU need the experience and there is no chance you are going to get that from high level play.

1 Like