Yeah. It might be an unimportant distinction, but it’s essentially positing that “Titan” is a blanket term for deific entities born of Worldsouls in Reality. That they identify with Order is happenstance (so far… maybe). If they’re the pantheon of Order, why are they born of Reality?
Well, Eonar is heavily “dyed” (using that term now) by life magic, while as mentioned before, Argus seemed to come in death tones despite being a titan
I wonder if the physical titans we see are just manufactured shells, similar to the weird first one robots we saw in Zereth Mortis
I sincerely hope not, because the implications of that kinda point towards Order being dominant above everything.
The problem is Argus.
Argus was pumped full of Fel (intentionally) and Death (secretly) and still came out as a Titan when Sargeras “awoke” him.
Then you have other Titans like Eonar which is a mix of arcane and another cosmic force, or even elemental. For example
Eonar: Arcane & Life
Khaz’goroth: Arcane, Fire & Earth
Golgannoth: Arcane, Water & Air
Argus again throws a wrench into that theory. To our knowledge, Fel corrupted Sargeras was the first Titan to find him. And Sargeras turned Argus into a fel powered battery. All the while the Dreadlords were pumping Death magic into him. Unless someone got to Argus before Sargeras (which would be speculation), Arcane was not the first cosmic power that ‘touched’ Argus. It would be Fel, or Death.
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I think it does, but to me that doesn’t necessarily mean that Azeroth is an “Order” Titan like the pantheon are. People say it’s going to be Sargeras… but I don’t see it without some insane twist.
yeah but it was sarg who awoke him right?
sarg is a titan, a fel titan but still a titan.
I dont think they planned this plot before the Argus titan plot, but theres like 3+ ways to write yourself out of it without making plotholes and retcons
-eredar were an advanced race so them or the naaru got to it at one point
-sarg titanified it himself for the greater good (which is what he was all about)
-someone else
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I believe it was implied that the Eredar did not know their planet had a world soul. At least I think velen did not know.
I mean you could probably mess it up without even knowing. Who knows, like some light being landed on it a billion years before eredar and lightified it then left until Sarg woke it. It’s just a gray area as to how it happened
That’s still a ret-con. I don’t mean to argue semantics but I just want to point out that we demonize ret-cons. They can be good, especially when continuity is needed.
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Argus is from a time when Blizzard had all world souls as being arcane/order based and they seem to be wanting to walk that back with Azeroth making her primarily Light based. The Chronicles continuing to be one of the worst decisions Blizzard has made.
I don’t think Blizzard really knows what they’re doing with arcane/order stuff anyway. Like half the titan stuff recently has just been Light and stuff as recent as the Spellslinger hero talent describe arcane as being inherently unstable.
Probably worth mentioning that, back in MoP when Wrathion has a spirit quest with edibles, the message from Aman’Thul says “We must rebuild the final titan.” That message came on the heels of Sargeras getting a little too murdery for everyone’s tastes.
If Azeroth is a Prime Worldsoul that they hunted for, enough so to call it their grand purpose even, rebuild doesn’t make a lot of sense. Unless they woke her up at some point a long time ago and were like “oh no, this was a bad idea, put her back under.” I guess it could possibly mean to literally take an existing Titan Worldsoul and rebuild it into something else, too. That would seem like a strange way to phrase “Pump her full of Order and drugs double time and get her on stage.”
I think you answered it yourself: “The Pantheon” is not the pantheon of Order. They’re just reality-based beings that all happened to align Order: Titans are by default just blank-slate constructs that occur in Reality for whatever reason. I think Worldsoul and Titan are more or less synonyms at this point, since the word Titan no longer implies any inherent connection to Order.
Which is to say, the “Arcane Lords” are out there, and I suspect that’s the big reveal that Iridikron has been alluding to for so long: that Aman’thul is a big liar and they’re only Order because the Arcane Lords managed to corrupt Aman’thul, who was then particularly good at his job at indoctrinating other ones.
I would have said that Azeroth’s behaviors and elemental affinity is just what happens when a Worldsoul manages to reach maturity without ever being influenced by a force (an Elemental Titan is the default, essentially), but this whole “Prime Worldsoul is related to all forces” thing is throwing me off.
Yeah, that’s basically where I’m at. I’ve just heard the Titans called the Pantheon of Order before and often enough, but it never made much sense to me.
I do wonder at a relationship between the constellars and Worldsouls, however.