I feel myself running out of charges often when a tank is chain pulling.
I feel as though Halo and Void Torrent should apply vt / swp to all targets it hits.
Thoughts?
It doesn’t help when tentacle slam is glitched and doesn’t apply dots at times either. When we have bugs that allows us to do too much damage though, it is race to fix this bug because god forbid we do too much damage.
6 Likes
Seems quite OP, and like it would end up nerfing those moves in the process while also not helping in multiple of the worst encounters. Like overgrown ancient where we still wouldnt be able to reliably dot and ramp on the fodder he spawns.
Someone else notated how common a 12s cd is across most classes and that tentacles being on a 12s cd would make notable impact without breaking us anywhere else.
I have maintained the sentiment that they can also just add the dots applied cap back to 8 like it was when it was shadow crash. It would only impact situations like AA first pull and overgrown ancient but wouldnt impact our ST.
Do you have particular pain points in mind that lead to this sentiment?
Needing to use both charges on one pull, killing the pack before I get both charges back, and not having proper dot coverage for the next pull.
How is this op? Sp being able to dot everything and cleave with psychic link still doesnt keep up with specs like dev/unh/demo. I think this would be a qol rather than being OP.
Even when I can dot every single target in m+, i’m still getting gapped by many other specs, sp is relatively weak.
1 Like
Because currently we are competitive on damage without the ability to dot everything. Hence I added it would mean also nerfing halo or entropic rift, or nerfing PL which is already our top damage source with the limited dotting.
Watch people clear 19s and 20s it is absolutely 100% possible to run every dungeon minus a few notable pain points.
You should absolutely be planning and thinking about the next pull before exhausting your casts of tentacle slam. That is why it has two charges. If a pack is dying dont use the second charge. Learning the class isnt just the 4 or button rotation, it involves learning the content and mechanics and pull cadence, when to pop DR, how to position.
For every next pack position yourself, pop fade and throw 1 to 3 manual casts of VT while the tank gathers then use tentacle slam. If its a pull > 9 mobs use the second.
There are very few encounters where we need more dotting and the solution is not going to be giving us a move that dots everything without it including a lot of additional rework and nerfs.
We’re one of very few classes that can already hit the 1M dps peaks in opening pulls of several M+ dungeons, like AA, PoS and Seat. We’re consistently bouncing between 6th and 7th on damage data out of 26 possible dps roles. We arent number 1 but we definitely arent weak or even bottom half.
I asked for specific situations because you are on a level 80, with no history, is the issue like leveling dungeons and old expansion content?
Yes this needs to be addressed and is a frequent point of issue brought up on the forums. I was truly hopeful we would see something about it in 12.0.5 but alas…
Are we??? I don’t think we are.
I’m finishing up my 17 resil and now attempting 18s
The joy of data is that it doesnt give value to opinions. Were 5th right now in raiding and 7th in M+. Our M+ hurdle is utility far more so than damage.
Im in the same key levels there are 3 classes ahead of us, UH DK, Devourer DH, and demo lock. We can beat everyone else and high keys is where we really shine. There are some fights and encounters where we excel and some where we dont but thats not unique to us.
Share some logs and we can do some in depth reviews. Maybe Ellipsis will join in, that dude is top tier when it comes to assistance on log reviews. But improvement always starts with self review and warcraft logs is an amazing utility for figuring out alterations on ability usage timings and gaps we can fix.
thats the issue I have, not everyone plays at that level and in lower keys shadow is trash because everything dies too fast to get damage out. I do feel fine in keys above 12 but anything lower and classes with more burst you cant even compete with. Should a class really be designed to only do good damage in the highest content? Also I feel like in raids its only decent on fights with adds or the dragons or paladins.
I would argue our straight ST is very weak in raid? I only ask because the damage lists im looking at only show shadow in a high position for the multitarget fights.
Ive always heard the whisperings over the years that hybrid classes are supposed to have lower damage since we can do both roles and straight dps classes are supposed to have higher damage but I never knew if thats actually true or just a wow myth.
All talents and the mastery that make DoTs a damage amp rather than interesting and powerful damage over time spells on their own need to be deleted from the game. They changed balance Druid’s mastery so they don’t absolutely require DoTs on their target for full damage with their other spells. It feels too clunky and more like a restriction at times than a benefit.
2 Likes
that must be 19+ keys’s or the groups just have other dps who aren’t bursty, because im 280 and only hitting like 600 to 700k max on those pulls because other classes just kill everything so fast and then our damage drops fast.
My trinkets are also awful. I’m missing gaze and vaelgors, i’m thinking with these I will start to see bigger numbers. I average at 150k overall in most of my dungeons and about 70k single target on bosses. I’m vw
This 100% i agree with, but more dots wouldnt fix this. It would just be more dots on mobs who die before ramp starts. The fix would have to be a burst effect like tentacle slams on impact damage doing 20x more to everything hit.
We do suffer immensely at lower keys, were forced into voidweaver to be remotely viable and we will basically never complete our ramp rotation on trash… I sadly dont know if we have any good work arounds for it. We can do the keys were able to do enough damage but it feels bad and feels more like were being carried than contributing.
Oh yeah… its definitely more something I orchestrate the group comp around. If its like an unholy dk and demo lock and shadow priest you wont be able to get the million unless one of them messes up. You gotta pick some strong single target role that doesnt aoe explode everything or just role qoth an Aug as the 3rd which means even bigger damage numbers on the meters but not the logs.
Pur direct ST does feel less gimped as we get more and more mastery. Hitting a decent crit % will help too. Best is finding a consistent guild group that is aware. Like we will suck on the few pure ST fights but then on things like alleria we will be nearly untouchable. But we definitely arent as good in ST.
SP dot application is still treated like its vanilla wow basically.
Lets take a look at DK-
Deathknight diseases are basically the exact same level of importance as shadow priest dots.
DK started with needing to apply both, and spread via pestilence.
Then dk got outbreak, and pestilence was still used.
Then dk got spammable outbreak, and wounds were now the thing needed, which used pestilence or festering scythe to spread.
Then dk NOW has OUTbreak spammable, as well as scourge strike adding diseases each time you cast it. You basically CANNOT NOT have diseases on the target.
Now shadow priest- 2 charges of tentacle slam that almost 50% of the time or more bug out and miss entire packs. So often you are just auto spamming 2 slams when you have a major size pack, or you are waiting like 10 seconds for every single mob to be gathered and brought into positioning in order to press tentacle slam, and of course it misses half of them, so you still spam it twice. Oh and SWP application STILL isnt baseline with tentacle (ridiculous).
screw the idea of halo spreading it, i think mind flay should basically spread dots to infinite targets every 2 seconds or so.
Dots are so important to the spec, and its almost impossible to consistently get dots on all the targets every single pull, its not even about skill, its just pure luck and frustration, making the spec extremely inconsistent and a literal headache to play.
Unfortunate considering how fun of a spec it COULD be.
Current dot application issues-
all of these raid fights with quick spawning and dying adds, almost impossible for shadow to effectively do dps. A joke, to be honest.
mythic plus is also not as bad, but the spec would literally be one of the best if the dot application was plentiful.
this makes balancing it realistically impossible, and terrible.
I gave up on shadow after a couple weeks of playing it as a main because it was too awfully designed, went back to DK. Where the dot spread is plentiful.
And ive played dk since wrath, and to see how blizzard has treated dot application on DK vs Shadow really makes you question whether or not blizzard actually meaningfully tests or cares about the specs in this game.
The DoTs just work as activators anyways.
I’d much rather see Tentacle Slam uncapped, with the damage of our DoTs nerfed above like 8 targets.
Not being able to do anything outside of our DoTs because everything is tied to VT, but we’re not applying it for the damage. We’re applying it because PL, Apparitions and our Mastery is tied to it.
Have you tried feather? I know its not bis but I feel like it gives me a damage boost on big trash pulls and on bosses when PI is on CD, that 550 haste on a 2 min CD lines up decent with our damage.
yes for sure, tentacle slam doesn’t do enough base damage in my opinion. I know its not meant to, but it would help in fights like the Tree in AA and Scourgelord in PIT, even first boss in void I feel like adds are dead before I can even get dots spread. When the adds die so fast we don’t get much use out of dots or psychic link.
I also feel like volley and halo should be hitting way harder than it is for the CD it has. It would be a bit of aoe burst for us. Whats your thoughts on that?
That’s what i’m using rn, with heart of wind.
Ive heard we are heavily reliant on gaze/vaelgor
Im using gaze/feather at the moment. If I get a heroic vaelgor I will try it out.
That’s twist of fate’s fault moreso than anything else. Our ST is pretty solid on any encounter with adds whether they live or not.
I get how this might sound broken but the expectation to our play style is to spread dots. So that’s assumed. Our dots are not hitting hard enough for long enough where this idea would be game breaking. Even if TS spreads to 6 targets and halo/torrent spreads to 3. It’s another way to keep our dots up. Having 3 dots up is where our damage starts to take off.