is it pretty much a given that the current writing teams think of SL as some sort of massive failure or “problem” that they will have to spend time painting themselves out of?
1 Like
So internally leaked materials have shown that Blizzard does understand that Shadowlands was a blunder, and that they understand in great part WHY it was (skewed reward systems, poor buildup for a villain, disdain for Sylvanas’s arc, etc.). I think Sylvanas’s implication in the Arator questline that the Shadowlands might not actually be the afterlife is a story pivot born from that.
That said, with the statement from Sylvanas, the changing of the guard on the story team, and the direction the story is going now… I’m not terribly sure what’s left for them to “paint out” of. I’d argue that, in terms of everything that influenced the modern setting, BFA is probably something they need to address more, since it saw the deconstruction of the Horde’s character and left a bad taste in everyone’s mouth for any future faction war stories. It took them a gratuitous amount of time to cinch up the Night Elf plot started there, and frankly, they need to show some modicum of care similar to it for the Forsaken - yes, the Night Elves lost Teldrassil, but on a meta level, the Forsaken lost far more in terms of their identity.
Whether or not they realize this in full, I can’t say, but the issues run far deeper than solely Shadowlands. I would argue that - for as horrible as Shadowlands is - BFA did more damage.
20 Likes
Agreed. Handsome Squidward being responsible for the Lich King secretly is cringe, but ultimately doesn’t impact -that- much in the setting and was ultimately self-contained to Shadowlands. BFA on the other hand..
Not just the Forsaken I’d argue but for the entire Horde. They’ve made attempts to repair the damage done to the Alliance/Night Elves - new tree, promise of Teldrassil restoration as well as not forgetting night elf locations in Kalimdor, Gilneas, etcetera. - Sure, one can argue whether or not those attempts were good, but they still made them. They’ve yet to do the same for the Horde.
16 Likes
I’d just add to this that there is at least one major reason why Shadowlands didn’t connect with players that very much has not been fixed - OC overload.
Shadowlands introduced a grotesque glut of new factions, races, cultures, characters, mechanics, and magic types, which contributed in large part to the common criticism that it ‘didn’t feel like Warcraft.’ This would prove to basically be the hallmark of Danuser’s time as creative head, and is a pretty serious problem that’s contributed to the stagnation of the setting and the refusal to build up or repair any of the races damaged by BFA (other than night elves, and even that they did by introducing a NEW TREE and NEW CITY rather than repairing or reintegrating anything).
although the harranir are the current example of this soul-sucking trend, imo the high water mark for it was the dracthyr, which are just a nothing OC race totally unintegrated into the setting that is sort of like something everyone wanted, but with a bunch of fun Danuserian speshuler than thou twists that make them feel boring and unwarcrafty. And then they get abandoned. Fun, fun, fun!
13 Likes
Or to state the corollary, no Warcraft characters joined us in the Shadowlands. I’ll scream to my dying breath that people would have loved Shadowlands if tons of living characters came with us, so that we could bounce all the new off the old.
10 Likes
This is something I’ve thought of before as well. Shadowlands does not want for good new characters - Marileth, Renathal, Moonberry, Theotar, etc. - but they don’t add anything to the setting we actually care about, which is Azeroth. It’s aggravating that the small modicum of good worldbuilding is forever imprisoned in the mediocre tomb that is Shadowlands.
10 Likes
So I wans’t talking about the game systems introduced in Shadowlands.
Which, I just assume most people hated since it was way too restrictive and cost players way WAY too much time to get all the goodies one could earn in it.
Hell, I AM STILL working on the stupid meta for it and I imagine I wont finish this until season 3’s dead period of Midnight just because I know scaling will be an issue (it always is)
****
I was talking about the story
The fact that the afterlife was so….utterly boring.
You basically had only ONE version of a “heaven,” and 3 versions of purgatory and one of hell.
(if you follow like judeo-christian or even islamic ideas of theology)
and then at the end, it’s revealed that “dollar store thanos” used to be the arbiter but then somehow got “Disillusioned” (but then conveniently never actually says why) and what’s worse, we learn that these alleged “first ones” built an “afterlife” after multiple attempts at it.
It was never clear (at least to me) if these “first ones” were actually just what we call Titans or some other beings …
and NOW, in the existing (season 3 of War Within) epilogue quest chain, we learn that Sylvanas says she’s “seen real death and this isn’t it,” which REALLY implied to me that the writers were trying to back out of the dogwater lore laid down by that expansion.
Also the whole rabbit hole with Denathrius doing his own thing in mortal realms? While it was definitely intriguing, it was very ….nonsensical. Also, I can’t help but notice we’ve not even bothered to visit that thread again….
4 Likes
Respectfully, I’m not really sure what answers you’re looking for here that you haven’t already received.
Its actually part of what made maldraxxus so enjoyable, i got to see actual characters from azeroth, every other zone was basically all just new characters.
4 Likes
Both expansions are tied to the hip narrative-wise. Can’t have one without the other.
10 Likes
Exactly this. My favorite zones were Maldraxxus and Revendreth, and it was largely because I got to spend time with characters that already meant something to me. My favorite parts of Bastion and Ardenweald involved Uther and Ysera. I wish we’d gotten more interaction between the living characters who came with us and the dead established characters we found.
5 Likes
The Primus could become the God of the Forsaken akin to Elune being the goddess of Night Elves. That could be one thing that links Maldraxxus permanently to Azeroth insomuch as relevance and import.
But Blizzard won’t do that.
1 Like
The Forsaken, as a society, do not require a divinity, let alone one that is tied to Shadowlands. Their appeal doesn’t lie in relying on a god for aid, it involves their togetherness in a mutually horrifying situation.
If they want a “god,” then they should dive more into the Cult of Forgotten Shadow. Otherwise, the Primus has no business mingling with the Forsaken.
2 Likes
The Forsaken absolutely need a god. They’re a dying culture utterly incapable of even basic self maintenance. They’re dying off through attrition.
1 Like
I don’t agree, and I’m not interested in going back and forth about something like this with you. It tends to go nowhere.
I’ll be hiding your replies for myself from here on. I find I don’t enjoy interacting with you or seeing the boorish way you conduct yourself on these forums over a video game. You can reply if you’d like, but in the future, please don’t expect a response from me.
3 Likes
“I don’t want to argue with you, so I’ll admonish you.”
ok
No. Most of Shadowlands was spent in painting themselvwes out of the massive debacle casused by Abrashi or whatever his name was speleld and his Cosby Room Cohorts with BFA. For better or worse, that process was done by the time Dragon Isles launched.
They mean in terms of the lore, not the scandal caused by the IRL members of Blizzard.
The damage to the lore was the collateral effect of the scandal, depending on what lore you’re talking about.
I don’t think that’s true whatsoever, the crappy story and the lawsuit were largely unaffected by one another, and the latter really doesn’t apply to the former in terms of this thread. Hell, Steve Danuser - largely considered to be the brain behind Shadowlands - wasn’t implicated in the allegations, and left of his own accord years afterward.
So no, the lawsuit stuff doesn’t apply to what’s being discussed here. This is purely about the lore.