Someone just griefed my +15

[Myzrym-area-52]

GD would not have any standards without double standards.

[Fauxstrasza-stormrage]

@Attash-frostmourne

I have an idea, switch to your main and comment your opinion on how we should punish m+ griefers, instead of being condescending on a lowbie alt like a coward. Lol.

If you’re running high m+, you would know sweeping penalties do not work.

And many cases, wiping first pull (and burning lust) is a legitimate reason to leave. The fact you even proposed 10 deaths is mindboggling.

You’re extremely upset in a game where keys aren’t sacred.

Your niche situation doesn’t require a systemic change that is so unlikely to affect anyone.

Plus m+ griefers are getting banned (allegedly.) As per recent Blizz announcement.

[Dojacàt-moon-guard]

@Attash-frostmourne

Ret pally dies by pulling aggro on the 2nd pack of the dungeon, we brez him, he cancels it, flames the tank and just leaves. First death. Leaves. Absolutely fuming right now, ngl.

I attempt to report him, but the only two options I get are ‘Inappropriate name’ or ‘Inappropriate communication’… That’s nice.

There should honestly be some sort of punishment system, where for example, if you leave m+ while the group is under a certain number of deaths (e.g. 5 or 10 deaths), you get a warning, then if you do it again within a certain time frame, a 24 hour account-wide debuff that doesn’t allow you to enter m+ dungeons, or something rather.

What are your thoughts on how to counter m+ griefing?

Find another route to report em or something.

They already said they gonna straight up ban players for leaving, though for the amount of times til the ban occurs they have never said how many it takes, or how they determine their exceptions (they said they understand power/net outages happen for example).

[Uncleruckus-darkspear]

@Attash-frostmourne

What are your thoughts on how to counter m+ griefing

Pick better folks to run with. No one here, and I mean no one, is going to be sympathetic about you whining about a 15 key.

[Grizzle-eredar]

@Forums-skeram

Either one could be possible.

Could be.
But “pulled” aggro from tank indicates one having aggro to start with which is why i went with the choice i did

[Forums-skeram]

If my comment came across as “you’re wrong”, I apologize, that was not my intent. You could very well be right. I was just tossing in an “also” comment, if that makes sense.

[Grizzle-eredar]

Nope didn’t it that way at all. Given the options i just elaborated on why i stuck with the choice i did

[Bungledork-area-52]

@Attash-frostmourne

There should honestly be some sort of punishment system, where for example, if you leave m+ while the group is under a certain number of deaths (e.g. 5 or 10 deaths), you get a warning, then if you do it again within a certain time frame, a 24 hour account-wide debuff that doesn’t allow you to enter m+ dungeons, or something rather.

I understand that you are upset. But, this is a game with an online community of thousands of people. Individuals. There is always going to be a level of negative friction. Blizzard had to decide what is an acceptable level of negative friction. Currently the system in place for combating what you experienced is, be selective with your group members (Which can cause its own friction), or take the loss, put the person on ignore. Dont play with them again.

For the most part it works. I can say with confidence that there have been many conversations among the devs on what if anything can be done about the situation you described. And, as the forum posts show, any punishment system they think of, creates the opportunity for innocent people to be punished, or in essence solving a problem, by creating more problems.

Your example. Making a minimum death amount before you can leave without a penalty, would result in the person who wants to leave the key, to just wipe the group a couple times. And I know it was just an off the cuff suggestion. And others have suggested much more elaborate and thought through systems, than inevitably just have the same issues. It is too easy for innocent people to receive punishments. And that is very much more important to avoid for Blizzard.

Yes it can be frustrating. But, in this regard, they just have to let the community be the community and self regulate in the group content. You run across someone that you dont want to play with again? Ignore them and move on. You can report people for violations of the ToS and Social Contract. But, for your scenario? That is just the negative friction of playing and online game with a massive community.

[Petersen-atiesh]

@Attash-frostmourne

What are your thoughts on how to counter m+ griefing?

Make friends. Get in a guild worth a damn. Stop PuGging.

[Arevra-frostmourne]

@Skalpy-darkspear

I think their initial thinking was this would naturally push all players at the high end to form groups of people they know but I think blizzard underestimated the number of people who would rather quit the game or continuously bang their head on the wall than invest time in establishing social connections for the purpose of gameplay.

They know, they have always refused to acknowledge or do anything about it until now. And fact they have only done it in the high keys is just an insult to everyone else.

I get why they are doing it, because otherwise you end up with everyone being carried in some way to an M8 or something that the key holder has no right to be in and therefore can never actually progress. No key completio means no gear and no gear means no key completion.

The idea of doing lower keys first is to get gear that will help you progress in higher keys, so in a way forcing lower keys to still drop in key level is needed, but it still hurst seeing that you NEED to complete every dungeon in an M12+ before you get the achievement and your key no longer drops is stupid.

Because now we have the issue where someone like me has an M12 in their bags, and not for the first time, but the players I play with just don’t yet have the gear to complete an M12 within a reasonable timeframe, so I am stuck with having to either pug a 12, run with the players I play with and have a miserable hour long dungeon, or simply drop my key to a 10 which will be pushed back up to 12 because scaling is whack.

[Madnaar-sargeras]

@Skalpy-darkspear

I think their initial thinking was this would naturally push all players at the high end to form groups of people they know but I think blizzard underestimated the number of people who would rather quit the game

This. While I’ve made some new friends now that I have a reasonably high m+ score… Pugging is extremely rough just because of the key rarity in general.

Several times a night I’ll see what groups are running just to find 3 14-15 Dawnbreakers and nothing else. It’s a huge RNG shoot to target a single high key you need, so people end up in a situation where you have to run many keys just to get a specific one, and that’s not really fun.

[Unsub-shuhalo (Unsub)]

Are you saying the “deserter debuff” is not enough? I think that it is punishment enough, your draconian solution seems a little extreme. You didn’t say anything about “repeat offenders”, they can be banned now, under current rules. How long that ban is, I don’t know, but it seems to be punishment enough for the Company. Not satisfied? The elites are never satisfied.

[Annastasi-proudmoore]

@Unsub-shuhalo

Are you saying the “deserter debuff” is not enough?

the guy is talking about m+, there is no deserter debuff for leaving an m+ run.

[Unsub-shuhalo (Unsub)]

Maybe they should get a debuff. But that is what the participants agree to by entering the M+ they have to know the risks. Are they not handing out bans to repeat offenders? Should it be first time offenders banned? Stuff happens.

[Annastasi-proudmoore]

other than the people who are obviously joining keys just to grief, I don’t think anyone should be banned for leaving a key for any reason.

[Unsub-shuhalo (Unsub)]

There was a mass banning in November for early quitters.

[Forums-skeram]

Do people actually just join keys specifically to grief? Seems like a waste of time.

[Annastasi-proudmoore]

apparently

I don’t know how many. for all we know blizz’s november banwave caught a whole 5 people. who knows.

[Coromu-bleeding-hollow]

Thats kind of the attitude the last few weeks that got me barely doing keys now. Just not fun with rage quitting drama queens. Fake DCs are a commonality too.

[Forums-skeram]

I mean, I can understand the habitual “leaver” situation and how some people will get upset for even the slightest reason, ruining someone’s key but going in with the purpose of doing it? I guess if that’s ever a case, I shouldn’t be surprised in this day and age.