you cannot use pserver numbers to prove anything here.
pservers are not Blizzard. Pservers had to guess numbers here.
In the context of certain things like proc rates you're right but you'd be surprised at how much of 1.12s official data is in the client itself.
That and I think hes pointing to class roll rate imbalance, tho I'll bet 90% of those warriors will never cap.
playing vanilla for balance lul. Any class can work if u aren't bad, and destroying an op class is even more rewarding.
This is what happens when you have patch 1.9, 1.11 for warriors/rogues in at launch. Compare the combined MC-AQ result to Naxx.
https://legacyplayers.com/Raids/Ranking/Default.aspx
Naxx was why those changes were made and why you see more classes represented. Pretty apparent the game is broken due to 1.12 warrior/rogue and threat changes being inserted into old raids.
What happens due to this. Population from FRESH.
Warrior 81,864
Mage 41,964
Rogue 39, 138
Hunter 37,088
Warlock 28,673
Priests 26,476
Druid 19,460
Paladin 18,215
Shaman 16,263
You can do better than these scuffed private servers Blizzard.
There seem to be lots and lots of level 1-5 warriors hanging out in IF.
I know my bank alt is a warrior..level 5 for enchant/disenchant.
And if you look closer at those stats nearly 100K of characters (both factions, all races) haven't made it past level 10. Only 6K are level capped.
08/03/2018 03:41 PMPosted by
Nalal
you cannot use pserver numbers to prove anything here.
pservers are not Blizzard. Pservers had to guess numbers here.
In the context of certain things like proc rates you're right but you'd be surprised at how much of 1.12s official data is in the client itself.
That and I think hes pointing to class roll rate imbalance, tho I'll bet 90% of those warriors will never cap.
90 percent of all players will never cap. Warrior leveling is not as bad as people make it out to be. Easiest time finding groups for elite quests, easiest time finding groups for instances. Can farm BIS from 50-60 tanking.
People were simply too dumb to figure out how to abuse the swing timer on warrior with a 2 hander and hamstring or the idea that you can tag a mob in a group of mobs run away and tag it again before the others run back to single pull any time you want. Same reason a lot of warriors never used LOS right.
WoW was a lot of peoples first MMO. People are STILL leveling warriors wrong to. You constantly see fury while leveling when they simply don't have the hit to make it worth a darn at low levels.
"You have to eat every pull". No you don't. You barely have to eat at all if you use your freaking abilities. You have the highest burst in the game and the highest autoswing damage. You get broken weapons at 29 and in the 30's (corpsemaker and quest axe). Downloading a swing timer and realizing you should only be in the range of a mob when you a) have a lot of rage b) the swing timer is up c) more than one and sweeping strikes is up to wtfpwn them with whirlwind, is not hard.
I swear it was rogues who rerolled to broken warriors on 1.12 that showed them how to play their class right and even how to level. Kiting elites with crippling is something every rogue did to solo quests. They didn't have "i win" retailation lol.
1 Like
Downloading a swing timer and realizing you should only be in the range of a mob when you a) have a lot of rage b) the swing timer is up c) more than one and sweeping strikes is up to wtfpwn them with whirlwind, is not hard.
I seriously laugh when I see warriors doing this, it's the dumbest thing ever.
People are STILL leveling warriors wrong to. You constantly see fury while leveling when they simply don't have the hit to make it worth a darn at low levels.
You don't level fury with dual weild, you use a 2hander which makes it exactly the same hit rate as arms, only better because you deal substantially more damage..via better damage boosting talents.
Arms is pretty substantially inferior pre 40.... and arguably even pre 60 given how it pigeonholes you into a weapon type.
That of course assumes the sit to proc enrage thing actually worked in OG vanilla (never played a warrior back then), and isn't just a pserver only thing like Rogues being able to strafe-backstab mobs... but yeah the Fury tree substantially improves leveling speed/killing power better than anything arms really has until weapon specs and mortal strike..... Tactical Mastery is required later on, but you rarely if ever, stance swap pre beserker stance that I've seen.
2 Likes
You don't level fury with dual weild,
When I was on the private servers it was so disturbingly common to see them running DW sub 60.. their piddly DPS was also comical.
I have no way to know how many actually made it to 60, but I had numerous "warrior mains" on my friends list to play with later because they were nice people (private servers), and at around level 35 most of them fizzled into nothing in all 3 of my private server experiences.
Curious to know just how many actually stuck it out and got to 60, because I am willing to bet the answer is "Not many"
Also curious to know just how many "warriors boots" have been sold on Kronos, because from what I read their "GM's" sell fully leveled / geared characters..
I suspect that has something to do with the high number of "warriors" on their servers, and also suspect it explains why every warrior I friended fizzled before 60.
I don't know why people act like leveling a warrior was hard. Sure it wasn't face roll and you have to be methodological about it but it wasn't that awful unless you never ran dungeons and were in quest greens 10 levels too low for you because you're one of those special DPS warriors that won't even learn how to off tank and would balk at tanking a 5 man.
1 Like
08/03/2018 02:18 PMPosted by
Vafarre
...
My guild will have 6-8 warriors total. Literally only because of the 4H fight and I'm honestly dreading having that many in my raid. Gearing them up is going to be a literal nightmare before even worrying about poaching and overambition.
That fight in particular sounds like it wasn't planned out very well for this exact reason. Either that or players are seriously under utilizing Druid and Paladins for this encounter.
Pallies can't do it thanks to needing to tank swap.
Bears could do it but you're running the risk of taunt "missing" unless you can stack em with enough hit gear.
Warriors basically had it easymode with tier 3 reducing the chances of tuant missing.
It was designed fine for the time, Just that sort of specificity is outdated now.
1 Like
As someone who actually played every hybrid to 60 during actual vanilla I can honestly state that if they plan to create classic as a 1.12 based - no balance adjustments at all - permanent patch (no plans on further alterations) the number of players willing to play hybrids will be massively lower than original vanilla.
It might start off fairly okay, but by the time raiding begins and people really start to look into the numbers they will first despair, then complain, then quit or re-roll. Newer players coming to try it out will see the complaints and simply not roll that class if their intention was to ever be anything other than pure healer.
One of the primary hopes that kept players leveling/gearing the hybrids was always 'maybe next patch'.
As in maybe next patch blizzard will finally realize how to correct the current issues and the class/spec you love will finally function correctly. It came true you know, hybrids started to work more or less fine... the very next major patch after 1.12.
In the beginning of wow, no one knew.. pretty much anything, but we did the math, worked it out. Until eventually toward the end, everyone knew. We all knew which class was OP and many a player re-rolled or respecced just to go be OP for a while. They knew it wouldn't last, but they did it anyway, just for that chance to shine.
No more patches or adjustments mean you will face a choice:
Do you want to be under-powered forever? or over-powered forever?
Here's a hint, it takes a very specific trait to choose the former over the latter.
2 Likes
Pallies can't do it thanks to needing to tank swap.
Bears could do it but you're running the risk of taunt "missing" unless you can stack em with enough hit gear.
Warriors basically had it easymode with tier 3 reducing the chances of tuant missing.
It was designed fine for the time, Just that sort of specificity is outdated now.
Pallies can do it. It just requires knowing how to throttle and rev your threat for the swap and a partner that can do the same.
Base miss chance against a raid boss with taunt was 17%. 4-piece tier 3 only reduces that to 12%. You are still going to miss more than 1 for every 10. The aforementioned tactic is the only guaranteed to work 100% of the time method when executed well. So yes, bears do just fine. In fact it would speed up your progression as you don't have to gear up 8 warrior tanks.
People are STILL leveling warriors wrong to. You constantly see fury while leveling when they simply don't have the hit to make it worth a darn at low levels.
Before patch 1.8, hit didn't affect dual wielding. People still dual wielded.
Broken or not vanilla is vanilla playing it is your choice just like before.
Base miss chance against a raid boss with taunt was 17%. 4-piece tier 3 only reduces that to 12%.
base Spell hit against a raid boss was 17%, Base meelee/ranged/Physical attack was 8%, I believe but I could be wrong that taunt counts as a physical attack.
But in essence you're right, I guess you could have a pally tanking one of the back two with another prot pally.,Issue is longevity which will be hampered if they're keeping their mana pool up with wisdom instead of building threat with SoR.
I haven't looked into how easy it is to gear bears and my knowledge of them in a vanilla setting is lacklustre to say the least.
base Spell hit against a raid boss was 17%, Base meelee/ranged/Physical attack was 8%, I believe but I could be wrong that taunt counts as a physical attack.
You are wrong.
Taunt was considered a spell in vanilla.
1 Like
08/04/2018 12:33 AMPosted by
Drpane
Broken or not vanilla is vanilla playing it is your choice just like before.
You are absolutely right, except kinda not.
Vanilla
was vanilla.
Classic however is not, and will never be vanilla. It is physically impossible for it to be vanilla, ever. If for no other reason than the fact that Classic did not come out in 2004.
Classic will be
similar to vanilla, it will be
like vanilla, but it cannot
be vanilla.
Vanilla was more than just a bunch of code, it was an experience. For those of us who had that experience it will be treasured. Like many things in life it was unique and cannot be replicated.
Classic will be an attempt to recapture some small measure of that experience and bring it forward in time to now. At it's very heart, the essence of vanilla.. was change. For those who never played it, this may be a difficult concept to understand. Every time there was patch, you became both hopeful and fearful in equal measure.
There was little to no warning, no idea what they planned to adjust. Just changes, changes everywhere.
You could be right in the middle of progressing through a raid when suddenly your entire talent tree changed, the whole play style you had built up.. no longer existed. You burned gold, respec after respec, did some math, had others do math, check numbers and then.. your spec was now junk, try something else. You refused, players laughed at you. The spec you had been playing for 6 months to a year perfectly content was now relegated to a
leveling spec.
Welcome to World of Warcraft.
2 Likes
Meh I'm still going to play a Paladin and just like Vanilla my second character will be a Warrior. They were a heck of a lot easier to level when you had a main that could bank roll them and keep them in good gear.
Things is the Blizzard product will not be just like private servers. There are going to be lots of people that play that aren't worried about being FOTM or top dog for raiding or anything else. They will just want to play it again, or for the first time.
Now those that are looking to seriously raid will follow that number outlook, but I think overall the number of people playing for !@#$s and giggles will makes those numbers not look as crazy.
08/04/2018 04:59 AMPosted by
Caelle
They were a heck of a lot easier to level when you had a main that could bank roll them and keep them in good gear.
Or willing to tank dungeons on occasion.
What people forget about Vanilla is that Warriors were the most painful class to level by a large margin. Slow and VERY gear dependent.
Those 81,864 Warriors are powerful in the end but they worked their butts off to get there.
People are STILL leveling warriors wrong to. You constantly see fury while leveling when they simply don't have the hit to make it worth a darn at low levels.
You don't level fury with dual weild, you use a 2hander which makes it exactly the same hit rate as arms, only better because you deal substantially more damage..via better damage boosting talents.
Arms is pretty substantially inferior pre 40.... and arguably even pre 60 given how it pigeonholes you into a weapon type.
That of course assumes the sit to proc enrage thing actually worked in OG vanilla (never played a warrior back then), and isn't just a pserver only thing like Rogues being able to strafe-backstab mobs... but yeah the Fury tree substantially improves leveling speed/killing power better than anything arms really has until weapon specs and mortal strike..... Tactical Mastery is required later on, but you rarely if ever, stance swap pre beserker stance that I've seen.
Nope. This is the only talent tree you need before 60 and raiding and you can use this for tanking 5 mans, ranking pvp. I don't think you people realize just how powerful sweeping strikes whirlwind is or realize how many dodges you get where you can overpower mobs. In addition the range on demo shout with this is stupid. You will wtfpwn every rogue you see and reveal them on their restealth and they will panic. It's actually pathetic how bad warriors are at their class. I blame one handed fury, which made the class playable by people who had no idea what they were doing.
https://classicwowtalents.appspot.com/?talent=11215875_1_80230502133251d3155c0131005x
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzQ4P6huu6M
In before you talk about dpsing in a 5 man, when if you are dpsing in a 5 man you are playing the class wrong and wasting time for no reason when you could say "LFM tank" and have a group within a minute.
The funny thing is you don't need the broken fury spec to level fast, pvp. It's the WRONG SPEC anyways. It just a raiding spec that breaks raids and lets bad players compete in pvp and people are defending it and or don't want something that never happened in real WoW (broken fury talents with threat not mattering) nerfed.
I guarantee the people who ran the 1.12 privates or donated the most money mained warriors. It's the only explanation for the idiocy and broken state they have warriors in.
What's worse is a lot of the big streamers who will be playing warrior will also inject their BS bias into this and are claiming this is "no changes".
08/04/2018 06:43 AMPosted by
Rahkur
What people forget about Vanilla is that Warriors were the most painful class to level by a large margin. Slow and VERY gear dependent.
Those 81,864 Warriors are powerful in the end but they worked their butts off to get there.
agree also private server the character is boost level60 having all the gear , i invite all crying baby making warrior for classic lolol be prepare for a hard awakening , so much retail noob post using low level make me laugh and think to know everything about classic :)
no change classic is alright