Solving the Forsaken dilemma

Narratively forsaken are hanging by a thread due to their finite numbers and inability to reproduce… Or not really.

Reintroduce living humans to Lordaeron and make the process of turning into undead a cultural trait rather than treating it as a curse or condemnation (assuming the end-result isn’t a generic ghoul).

That way they can technically reproduce ensuring the kingdoms survival while maintaining their forsaken identity.

I think the Shadowlands ending was kind of a setup for the Forsaken’s future.

Basically the Scourge now is fractured, but loose. There’s no one to control them.

So what I think is gonna happen is: Those fragments of the Scourge will run amok from time to time, causing trouble and turning people Undead. The Forsaken will then rescue these new Undead whenever they can be saved and give them a home.

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Though in Lordaeron the Scourge should already have been dealt with by the Forsaken, Argen and Scarlet. Leaving those in Northrend which isn’t particular populated save for the various forts here and there.

I mean, they can always move places.

It’s easy to think of the enemy game units as static because that’s how they work in game, but lorewise there’s nothing stopping the Northrend Scourge from getting in a boat and sailing to Westfall lol

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Not to mention, the one Bastion chain, in which we help one of the asperants move up, Lakeshire comes under attack by the Scourge, unless it was more timey wimey shenanigans that is a hook for current time stories.

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At least some abominations feel like morbid surrogate children. :robot::thought_balloon:

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Would be neat if they did what happened in BfA where a sickly Kul Tiran agreed to being a Forsaken so he wouldn’t die

If only they didn’t make Sylvanas a moustache twirling moron…

That’s a good idea but I think you’re giving this writing team a little too much credit here.

Buttons!!!

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It was legit sad when folks in Torghast eventually stopped putting “BUTTONS!” “Mraaaaz” in the chat

The Forsaken population is fine because the starting area is timelocked and player numbers never represent the lore population numbers.

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This would actually be an interesting way to go about this.

I could see becoming Undead/Forsaken being almost a religious ceremony, like a baptism. The future undead could literally be undergoing some sort of ritual so that they could continue to perform their duties, like leading, protecting, doctoring, that sort of thing.

Cool idea, Livia.

:+1:

Open a dictionary and look up the word “Forsaken”. No, that wouldn’t solve the “Forsaken” identity because what you are describing is antithetical to it. The in-universe story behind the Forsaken is entirely different than just “Oh, undead faction - neat”.

The type of undead you are describing would be undead like Alonsus Faol, Meryl Felstorm, and Calia. Undead characters who aren’t Forsaken. If you want to make those the centrepiece of a modern “Forsaken” you would also need to change the name and most of the ties that the Forsaken have to each other and why them as a faction exists in the first place.


The idea isn’t terrible … but you are also looking at it from the wrong perspective. If you are making the argument for this type of culture, you are asking for undead to no longer be playable. Because the alternative isn’t to continue raising people into undeath, it is to not raise people into undeath and leave the generations of Forsaken to die off.

Yes, there’s going to be forms of necromancy in the world which will increase the number of undead here and there. But they don’t generally speaking are part of the Forsaken, not even the Forsaken themselves were raised by a force that were under the Forsaken’s control. The Scourge, Drakkari, Val’kyr, Death Knights, and the Shadowlands’ different versions and concepts of it, and finally even the Light itself can raise people using Necromantic light.

None of those give the playable or in-universe Forsaken the ability to actively raise more Forsaken. But yes, there will always be characters with enough power to raise the dead and provide limited or complete free will to the raised character … but the Forsaken as a faction are divided specifically because of this. And basically everyone who agreed with the idea of “more Forsaken”, were Sylvanas loyalists. You know… the ones that basically no Forsaken, at least in public, is willing to agree with anymore because of the things that she did.

The idea is neat … but their name is the “Forsaken” for a reason, and without that name … they just join another faction who is willing to accept them, making them not forsaken. With greater acceptance of factions, the fewer Forsaken there will be. That’s just quite literally how the forsaken Forsaken works (and this grammatical play on words is kinda the point).


Again though, this isn’t a terrible idea. But I’m just trying to tell you that … you kinda need to change the perspective by quite a lot for it to make any degree of sense.

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Alonsus Faol is a normal scourge origin undead.

Maryl and Calia on the other hand were resurected through different means.

Something that’s already been put under question after not only being abused by Arthas but discarded by Sylvanas. Now is an actual opportune moment to reshape their culture to something that doesn’t rely on survival through massacres.

Wat… It wouldn’t make undead no longer playable nor would it mean that they can’t raise more into undeath. Just that they don’t need to harvest people for it.

If anything it would be closer to how Trolls are doing it just less emphasis on preserving the corpse in a tomb and rather let them wander about continuing whatever things they were doing prior to their undeath reincarnation.

It would be like Elona in GW2, a society shared by the living and dead. Where death is just another period of the citizens life (Just minus the undying devotion to a lich).

You completely misunderstood everything, so I will summarise it like this:

There’s not a single logical reason for there to be anymore Forsaken undead ever again under the current circumstances. Those who would become undead for one reason or another would quite literally just join whatever faction they wanted that would accept them.

The overarching faction of the Forsaken exists quite literally because they were forsaken by others. If there’s a culture wherein people accept undeath, they quite literally wouldn’t be forsaken nor Forsaken. They would just join whatever faction they wanted, and not give a damn about the Forsaken as a faction as they wouldn’t belong to it.

Just like how Alonsus Faol, Maryl, and Calia aren’t Forsaken.

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Best part in all of SL hands down.

You should check out the questline from Calder Gray in Southern Barrens.

Though it does sound like you get a bit too much hung up in their name. Rather than treating the forsaken as the succeeding nation of Loraderon.

Yes “being forsaken” is their moto, but motos change over time. It’s not like Germany still use the motos from you know what.

Again… you misunderstand me.

If a gnome dies and it was resurrected as an undead gnome, if High Tinker Mekkatorque would allow it and the other gnomes wouldn’t mind it … that undead gnome would just be part of Gnomeregan. The same thing goes for stormwindians and kul tirans.

The name is quite literally everything for the Forsaken because the name is their primary emotion towards everything else alive. And as that has changed, we see more and more Forsaken abandon that name and even the Horde or factions all together. That is quite literally what ignited BFA. That is quite literally the exact question that Calia asks when she’s trying to help clean Lordaeron of the blight. And the same thing is mentioned by every other member on the Desolate Council.

It isn’t a “motto”, it is their literal existence. And as more and more undead change their mindset about that, more and more of them are referring to themselves as whatever they were before dying. “The undead alliance of Lordaeron” as a faction is probably a whole lot more lore-accurate name to describe what the political name of the Forsaken is at this point. Which, no one goes by - they still call themselves the Desolate Council, but as their existence has changed … we’ll genuinely start to see more and more undead around the world in-universe, even if we might not see it in-game.


Edit: I will summarise it like this … The Forsaken as a faction only exists because of the literal word and meaning of “forsaken”. You provide an acceptance towards undeath, you remove the faction itself. Because they will just join whatever faction they want to as long as people are willing to accept them.

And if you want an example of this … go to Bel’ameth and look towards the Twilight Tower, I think that’s the name of the place. Because that is what would happen if people accept undeath within their “living” faction.