As a die hard warrior main with thousands of hours on this class I feel like i’ve seen the ups and downs of the warrior. the devs are scared of making warrior dps TO strong and they don’t really know how to balance it properly in SoD to give other classes a chance to compete comparatively. The idea of standardizing rage generation was even talked about (that would completely destroy warrior as a class in classic). my idea is that they shouldn’t worry about trying to balance warrior damage at all. the current warrior runes are all dull +%passive damage runes that will inevitably feed into warrior’s monster late game scaling. Instead they should focus on where warriors are weakest like they’ve done with EVERY other class focusing on where they fall short IE PvP/survivability/utility/solo play and class identity giving them things that make their class feel fun and impactful while letting other classes shine in raids and dungeons. the rage mechanic in classic is destined to be a monster with scaling making them by default one of the best DPS classes in the later part of the game. That is not to say they are stand alone the best dps class as they require a team compositions that benefit them more then any other class or spec (WF/LoTP/Consumes/Wbuffs).
some of my suggestions that I can think of of the top of my head are >>
-change shield slam from 50% to 100% dispel chance.
-give revenge a block value dmg scaling adding more value to the tank gear nobody wants from raid (outside nesh glad pvp enjoyers).
-remove the rage cost of battle shout/commanding or combine both buffs.
-make their armor relevant for PvP by adding some sort of magic dmg reduction scaling off % armor value.
-Shield wall/Recklessness/retaliation no longer share a CD.
-Demoralizing shout reduces flat %dmg (effects caster/melee and will use this over homunculi for raid freeing up a rune slot for priests while not making it useless)
-Thunderclap reduces cast speed as well as melee attack speed (warlocks get a better version but this will help solo warriors vs casters, its AoE effect will also always have a place making the thunderclap leg rune viable for tanks)
-Gladiator stance moved to leg slot, this frees up enraged regeneration or intervene for PvP or PvE giving warriors high mobility and an interesting playstyle with alot of skill expression.
The list goes on and on…
Id love to get other classes feedback on how this sounds to them.
These are all changes that can still be made to balance a class that hasn’t seen nearly enough love in SoD due to being good in a previous version of the game or because they look good in WCL (with full Wbuffs/consumes/team comp/etcetera)
if you agree please upvote maybe the devs will see this post and take this into consideration for warrior balancing.
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why are most your pvp suggestions just making warriors strong against casters. they’ve always been weak to casters. stop charging into naria leaving your pocket healer to be killed by me.
ill give you credit though at least the pvp changes werent gimme more burst damage like the usual brown suggestion.
The main issue with warrior right now is the totally boring and uninspired runes on offer.
A large amount of them are simply ‘+% damage’ for doing something, there is no additional utility or interactivity. Most other classes have gained something very new and unique that gives their class something extra, especially in pvp.
Where is bladestorm?
Where is shockwave?
Where is heroic throw?
Where is heroic leap?
Where is spell reflect?
Where is literally any other cool ability with some kind of utility?
well the changes i’ve suggested do effect casters they are by and large the stronger of the two rolls in pvp and especially strong vs warriors who have 0 built in mitigation for them.
thunder clap wouldn’t be that strong only the same % slow as it is to melee attack speed. and other classes IE warlock already have massively stronger versions of this ability. the % armor to magic dmg is just a suggestion, a band aid on the issue of warriors being farmed by casters with almost no counter, the 50% to 100% for dispel is just removing RNG and adding more skill into a playstyle that already heavily relies on RNG procs/crits to do heavy dmg
aggrends comments about warrior scaling and threatening rage normalization are hilarious.
blizz devs are literally making the scaling problem worse, on purpose, by pushing a bunch of +% damage +rage runes that just encourage 1 button spam gameplay and scale out of control when fully buffed.
This was an obvious problem with clear precedent in every iteration of classic wow so far, and they made it WORSE.
The issue with warriors is they are not 20% everyone else (end game they are getting there.) Therefore war=weak.
No One cares unless anyone is brought up to war scaling.
bad warriors are getting farmed by casters. its a technical class to play and most people just aren’t good at it.
the dispel request is reasonable.
I admit that bad warriors do tend to charge in a bit to deep that’s not the case for all of them and the weakness is still valid for good and bad players though. they need better utility and survivability to fill the roll they are designed to do in current PVP.
good warriors can lay down great pressure, but in the current meta (where every other class has gained great new rune abilities) they are just doing less damage, while taking more damage, and have near zero utility / survivability to make up for it.
Raided plenty. War was always behind till execute stage the they make up 40% dps. Reality was they scale so well the keep up in dps (ish) the blow away everyone’s in execute phase.
You are not fooling anyone on what is coming.
its main issue is that of versatility, other classes are designed to have different styles of play depending on talents, runes and situation. warrior doesn’t have this, they are designed to take dmg and deal dmg and in SoD p3 for pvp at least they cant take any dmg. as most classes just flat out beat them in that, so they ether need more dmg or more survivability and the one that’s easier to do without completely braking PVE is survival. the current runes dont support this however as they are basically all +%dmg that just dosnt translate to pvp. this is an issue and would be helped by adding in magic damage reduction from armor value will helps with this. warrior is the only class in the game with no real way around it (palys do holy dmg - rogues do nature - melee shams also do nature - hunters do a bit of everything) this bypasses the old system warrior had for mitigation (high armor with plate) while the stamina has just not keep up with the inflated dmg of SoD.
It’s staggering how incompetent this dev team is. They are aware and dreading the inevitable scaling of warrior, but then instead of giving interesting utility or mobility runes, they give % based damage increases that will feed directly into the problem they claim to be aware of. They’re actively working against themselves on this issue, but I guess that’s how you get kicked off the retail team and assigned to classic maintenance/bug fixers.
as soon as I saw them put the scuffed glad stance on the foot slot I realized they ether don’t play warrior or are intentionally side lining them. this class has always been one of the most popular classes in World of Warcraft and to see them shoot themselves in the foot over and over with more then JUST warrior makes me think they’re ether incompetent or sabotaging SoD. if you sell the best hotdogs in the city why would you give people ONLY mustard? or try to market your tacos harder??? who knows maybe it will all come together in the later phases?
shrug this is fairly in line with blizzard though so who knows
Who are you even talking to? This thread is about PvP and feels, not chart performance.
This is a huge one for me, it used to be the trade off for spell damage ignoring armour was that it scaled poorly, but now it scales just fine AND has no way to be easily mitigated without going out and constructing a Spell Resist set for each school.
I’d like it if Gladiator became more of a control/lockdown spec than a damage one, to try and help deal with casters. The STV shield was a cool idea, but it’s got such a long ICD that it hardly seems worth it.
-remove the rage cost of battle shout/commanding or combine both buffs.
-make their armor relevant for PvP by adding some sort of magic dmg reduction scaling off % armor value.
-Shield wall/Recklessness/retaliation no longer share a CD.
Can‘t agree more on these three options.
I love your suggestion and it definitely very much a welcome addition in terms of changes.
i just wanna add few more things:
to make warrior variability in terms of playstyle, devs kinda did pretty good with the direction of glad stance atm. But for arms warrior i have few suggestion too:
make 2h axe wielder ability to proc 2x,2.25x,2.5x,2.75x,3x crit
2h mace wielder ability to proc armor penetration
2h sword wielder to increase haste chance (might count as buff for pve as well)
polearm wielder to permanently increase melee atk range by 10 yd while wielding the said weapon
staff to increase warrior movespeed by 5%
Instead of worrying about scaling us down how about they work to scale the other classes up? It would put things in line with the raid hp scaling they were starting with in ST that they had to mega nerf. They need to spend some time actually testing pre-release of a patch/phase. This non testing what you are and I so loosely use the term developing is poor desogn. Hate to say it this way but there’s another company running an mmo out there that doesn’t let garbage changes that lead to “unintended” bugs or oversights leave the shop nearly as often as our current dev team for sod. If you don’t want ptr you need to hire testers.
The gladiator stance is a fun and interesting new direction with a lot of possibility and promise, however it has a few key issues hopefully fixed in later phases or patches.
Gladiator stance’s main issues that most warriors notice right off the bat is the gear system.
To perform well in PvP you MUST have lots of +block gear and thats all in ST locked behind gear tokens and tank prio gear. (that 98% of warriors will first use on the DPS gear).
the second main issue is that of the role that glad stance fills for both PvP AND PvE, its a DPS rune that sacrifices a two hander or duel wield for a sword and board. This means that you will, by definition get less rage per attack, that means less damage overall, in raid you get around this by spamming a cheap damaging ability of devastate and deep wounds crit procs (this is an extremely lack luster playstyle of clicking essentially one butten) and forces you to have Wbuffs and consumes to meet the crit chance threshold needed to perform on the same level as other dps warrior specs.
Lastly its a miss placed rune on the boot slot taking away other key PvP runes needlessly gimping its playstyle. (may change with new runes)
I really like you suggestion of the polearm range although that may have unforeseen cheese mechanics with auto attacking through walls (something you can already do in some places)
The issue with the 2x, 2.25x, 2.5x, 2.75x, 3x crit is that of scaling, in late game such as naxx you will have an effective crit chance of up to 50% and with a 3x modifier the dreaded scaling of warriors would be out of this world and impossible to not have every raid a 30 stack of arms warriors, this is something devs are trying to avoid.
2h swords already has a hast modifier on it as WF and chance to swing multiple times is basically just a hast modifier as %chance proc per minute is = to swings per minute fundamentally.
the mace skill however is a fair and balanced alternative to the current +%chance stun skill in the talent tree. however armor penetration isn’t a stat that exists in classic and wasn’t added or coded until wrath of the lich king, however flat armor reduction would achieve the same result. this would be a fair balance for both PVP and PVE (as long is its a max 1 stack and not multi stack- ie 10 warriors 10 instances of reduced armor)
Tbh my suggestion was not to revamp the talent tree system but added something like spellbook or rune on top of it,I understand it’s a nightmare to balance both pve and pvp at the moment.
There are few abilities I might suggest as well,
The axe crit obviously was borrowed from blademaster unit from wc3 3(4x crit at max level)
We could also use second wind, spell reflection, storm bolt, avatar (from mountain king wc 3 unit), bladestorm maybe.
Shield block value itemization is fine as of right now tbh, we just need some trinket like gnomeregan autoblocker from tbc token vendor to make it viable in pvp
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