Just raising attention to a growing concern expressed in the Rogue/Simonize discords in regards to how fast mutilate/deadlybrew/envenom runed rogues will fly through poison charges and require reapplying mid combat.
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What a first world problem. I await the day for somebody complaining that their DPS is so high that they must repair weapons mid-combat.
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That feels pretty classic to me lol. But seriously I guess it depends how fast you’re talking.
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We never had to reapply in the middle of combat unless you forgot to do it before a boss.
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I just meant it as something you have to look out for, that feels very classic. Kinda like how hunters have to make sure their pets are happy. I could see it being annoying if it runs out very quickly but otherwise it sounds like it just lends itself to the rogue fantasy you know.
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Yes, rogue fantasy incorporates standing still mid combat for 3 seconds to apply a poison while the fight continues. /s
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Another thing to note is unless shamans windfury is changed to match druids one.
we will not be able to use poisons on our MH aswell as have current shamans WF buff.
Making druids WF Infinitly better for mut/envenom spec.
Easy fix for charges is just have deadly brew or envenom give instant poison unlimted charges.
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Rogue fantasy incorporates applying poisons ahead of time of being prepared for your fights, and of fighting dirty. If the poisons are running out too quick and becoming a hinderance to gameplay I could see that being a problem. But if you need to reapply a couple times in a dungeon, that just feels vanilla personally.
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Poisons will still have a duration,
max rank instant is 115 charges with assassination spec, the envenom buff and mutilate hitting with both weps proccing it more, you will fly through those charges so fast, in wrath instant poison is in the top-3 damage ability on the meters (going by what i remember from naxx)
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This is why I specifically added that if it’s running out super-fast I can understand the complaint.
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Where do you draw the line? Having to reapply every 45 seconds? 60? 120?
Once I’m not at work and posting from a phone, vanilla energy return makes it pretty easy to napkin math how often we will cast, buff uptime, etc. So can easily find out roughly how fast we’ll go through it.
The only players who will notice rogue poison charges being removed are rogues themselves, no other class will notice the change at all.
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unless they change it mut/env is DOA
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Just to provide an example directly from blizzcon demo.
Taking sarthe pov he applied instant poison just before the big turtle boss (30min duration, 40charges).
And 7 mins of the poison timer had passed and he had used all 40 charges. with about 1/3 of the bosses hp left.
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I’m feeling personally attacked.
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What would you propose? TBC-onward poisons that last a set time and have no charges?
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^ Yes, exactly this
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It wouldn’t be a couple of times in the run, it’ll be more like at the start of the boss fight and somewhere around 75% done with the boss fight, and then again after for the next trash clearing. Reapplying in classic is whatever, because they only exist as small increase in dps, most couldn’t even be used, and if you’re like me and on horde, you didn’t even poison your main hand anyways because it didn’t stack with wind fury which is objectively better every time.
Mutilate does more when the target is poisoned, the new rune version of deadly brew applies deadly, which is must have for envenom. Envenom increases instant application, the one we’re going to use, by 75%. 155 charges will be ripped down because once we hit envenom, everything we do will basically apply a charge. In BFD, we will have rank 1 which is like 50 charges. I feel like we’ll be lucky if we end the fight with a couple of charges left, but more than likely, we’re going to have to spend 5 seconds just standing there and reapplying one poison. 10 seconds if we got to do both. If blizzard actually cares a minimal amount about these runes working in full, then the poison focused build for rogue in sod should definitely have charges removed or increased to an amount that appropriately accommodates the changes in class due to runes.
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We could also request a shorter cast time for applying poisons. I feel like that really should happen to all versions of WoW regardless of any other changes.
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As mentioned earlier in the thread, druids bringing WF means we can dual apply IP. In vanilla/classic, you left MH bare so it got WF.
On top of that, mutilate (if wonky like wotlk) can proc 3x doses of IP.
So these + the new rune mechanics really make charges on poisons feel outdated.
Edit; additionally, the interaction of WF on the actual mainhand charges itself will speed up the loss, even more so if you get a WF proc while having the envenom buff up. Thats like 5 charges gone in 1 icd?
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