I know there have been plenty of posts ranting about the difficulty of the Scarlet Enclave raid. And I felt I would add my opinion to the pile. I think that scarlet does present an extreme challenge to those who are willing to take it, but that isn’t representative of SoD’s playerbase. Most players will keep smashing their heads against this wall in their 20-man team or eventually give up. If you want to argue that Scarlet is in this “amazingly successful” phase and that it’s perfectly balanced, you’re right to you.
Look at the numbers of Ironforge Pro showing accurate numbers of the amount of logs taken from Scarlet Enclave (most are logging, considering the difficulty).
In the last 3 weeks (when Scarlet was released), the numbers really haven’t risen. And from a player’s perspective, I do consider this a failure. Why? Blizzard just decided to release the first new raid into Classic ever, and this should have driven players to come and, well, play it. The catch-up mechanics of SoD gave players time to prepare for this, and if the raid weren’t so hardcore to the normal player, maybe we would have seen the popularity go up (especially considering the recent surge of popular streamers coming to play as well like Xaryu, Savix, and Sardaco).
I guess what I am trying to say is I understand people like Enhmypants and Sentenza who constantly post on the forums about the enjoyment of difficulty and progression. But the truth is the majority of the players on SoD aren’t acquainted with this nor do they want to do this because that is not the game that they spent a year minimum playing. People don’t like running raids with too much challenge and getting barely any loot. That just isn’t fun to most people.
Overall, my point is I would have loved to see a surge in population for SoD with the release of the new raid, where guilds would have an easy time recruiting, and having fun with their friends. Seeing new guilds form on the server to take on the new content. But we see the opposite. Guilds are having an extremely tough time recruiting, with some of them straight up quitting due to this raid’s difficulty (it should have had 2 different difficulties).
The way I see it, this phase is underwhelming and the devs know it. That’s why they didn’t really promote it.
The raid itself is amazing. I love the fights, the strats, the length of them (so boring to have raid bosses not even lasting a full minute). But the clearly programmed overtuning in order to artificially extend the ‘phase’ is just disrespecful to the playerbase.
And behind that, there’s just nothing. It’s the emptiest phase we’ve had since P3.
No PvP content, a very small area with enough quests to keep you busy one evening and that’s it. Not even a dungeon like KZ to allow for more catch-up mechanics.
So appart from raid-logging on an impossible 20 man raid and farming 10k+ gold worth of mats for an ashbringer that you’ll see in about 2 month, there isn’t much to do.
I know the team is a small one and SoD is a side project but this phase was the first (and probably last) where they truly had free reins to create brand new content within Classic.
They could have easily make Naxx last another 4 weeks withoug upsetting the community if that meant a phase with proper content. Like adding new mats, new profession cap, new pvp event/gear etc.
That’s exactly what he’s basing it off, as most players do for some reason. A lack of logs doesn’t mean people aren’t playing, it means not everyone cares enough to log
Yeah, I am, and for pretty good reason. Logs are a very good metric to show how many people are currently raiding, and if you would like to suggest to me that somehow the amount of people logging has gone up (it has remained the same as we have seen) with the hardest raid of SoD releasing you have to be making some kind of joke. With higher difficulty comes more people who want to log the content because of the competitiveness. The kind of people that don’t log are the casual groups (very small % of pugs etc). People are not pugging SE nearly as much as Naxx.
Your argument falls apart when actual Warcraft Logs data is considered. 244 guilds are actively progressing in the 20-man bracket, and 1,350 guilds in the 40-man bracket—far from the exaggerated claims that most players are stuck or quitting.
Progression takes time, just like every other raid in WoW’s history. SE is difficult, but not impossible, and guilds are adapting. If the raid were truly broken, clear rates would be near zero—but they aren’t. Blizzard’s small tuning adjustments prove the difficulty is working as intended, not that the raid needs a nerf.
The claim that SE’s difficulty is hurting the player base ignores reality—guilds are clearing bosses, refining strategies, and making progress. Complaining that it’s hard doesn’t mean it’s overtuned, it means players need to improve. That’s how raiding has always worked.
Warcraft logs is more Accurate.
Your argument is flawed from the start. Streamers have zero relevance to actual player progression. Popular figures like Xaryu, Savix, and Sardaco jumping into the game does not determine whether a raid is well-designed or accessible. Raiding success is driven by mechanics, player adaptation, and coordination—not by who happens to be streaming it.
Your claim that raid numbers haven’t risen in three weeks is misleading. The actual Warcraft Logs data shows 244 guilds progressing in the 20-man bracket and 1,350 guilds in the 40-man bracket. That is active engagement and proof that progression is happening. You’re trying to frame difficulty as a failure, when in reality, players are learning, adapting, and clearing bosses—just like every past raid tier in WoW history.
And let’s talk about the damage this kind of whining actually causes. This constant crying about difficulty kills motivation for raid groups pushing through progression. Instead of working through the challenge, players are bombarded with doomposting that discourages effort and fuels unjustified complaints. Blizzard tunes based on real progression not forum meltdowns, yet this negativity poisons genuine discussions about reasonable tuning adjustments vs. gutting difficulty outright.
Scarlet Enclave is tough, but beatable. The numbers prove guilds are progressing. If your group isn’t getting through it, that’s a player adaptation issue—not bad raid design.
Ah, calling me out by name? /bow Appreciate the recognition.
Now, let’s break down this argument. You claim that the majority of players don’t want difficult raids—yet history proves that hard content is often the most celebrated, despite its shorter lifespan in progression. Players love challenging encounters, which is why pre-nerf versions of fights like Yogg-0, Firelands Ragnaros, and Mythic Sire Denathrius are forever remembered, even though they only existed for a fraction of the tier’s lifespan. These encounters define progression, and those who thrive in difficulty only get a brief window to experience the raid at its peak.
Meanwhile, nerfed content lingers indefinitely, catering to casual players long after progression raiders have moved on. So why should players who enjoy the challenge be forced to only experience unnerfed content for a short time, while those who prefer nerfed encounters get to enjoy their preferred experience for months? If difficulty is immediately gutted, it permanently removes that experience from the game, leaving only a diluted version for everyone.
Scarlet Enclave is tough but beatable, and players are progressing. The argument that difficulty itself is a problem ignores the fact that some players want to be challenged, even if that’s not the majority. A game should not cater solely to ease—it should allow both types of players their time in the spotlight.
At the end of the day, those who want difficulty should be able to enjoy it while it lasts. If everything is immediately nerfed for accessibility, what would even be the point of having challenging content at all? Let progression exist as it always has, with tough encounters first and accessibility later—not an immediate blanket nerf to appease complaints.
Your argument assumes that raid difficulty is the sole reason guilds are struggling to recruit, but that ignores the actual factors affecting player engagement. Recruitment issues have existed in every phase of SoD, not just because of Scarlet Enclave. Guilds always face roster challenges due to player burnout, shifting priorities, and natural attrition—not just because a raid is difficult.
You also claim that guilds are quitting due to difficulty, but the actual Warcraft Logs data shows 244 guilds actively progressing in the 20-man bracket and 1,350 guilds in the 40-man bracket. That is not a sign of mass quitting—it’s proof that progression is happening. If SE were truly impossible, clear rates would be near zero, but that’s not the case.
As for two difficulty settings, WoW’s entire raid philosophy has always been progression-based, meaning players adapt, refine strategies, and improve execution over time. SE is challenging but beatable, and guilds are clearing bosses. If difficulty were immediately nerfed or split into multiple modes, it would permanently remove the challenge for those who enjoy it, leaving only a watered-down version.
Scarlet Enclave is not a failure—it’s a progression raid, and players are actively working through it. Complaining that it’s hard doesn’t mean it’s broken, it means players need to improve—just like every past raid in WoW history.
Logs are the best available metric to measure raid activity. There is no other reliable source that provides accurate data on how many guilds are actually progressing through the content. If you have a better way to track raid engagement, what is it?
Without logs, you’re just guessing based on anecdotal experience, which is nowhere near as accurate as a database tracking actual boss kills. If you’re rejecting logs as evidence, then where is your proof that more players are clearing SE than the logs show?
Blizzard does not release official raid participation numbers, and logs are the industry standard for tracking progression. Trying to dismiss them just because not everyone logs ignores the fact that raiders aiming for serious progression overwhelmingly do.
So unless you can present a better, more accurate source, logs remain the best indicator of actual raid participation. What do you propose that beats Warcraft Logs in tracking this data?
Not getting in a back & forth with you again. I’m not reading that. Blah blah blah my argument is always wrong, your’s is ofc right. Why don’t I just bow down to you and call you my savior at this point. Then you respond back with to this saying that this post is just me showing my vulnerability once again because you’re using ChatGPT to generate you a paragraph long message in seconds that I could not give a crap less about. Love you man, but I see right through ya. I need to see if there is a block feature on the forums for real.
Edit: There is by clicking someone’s portrait and clicking the ignore setting on that particular character. Yay!
response—right after reading it enough to react. You’re dodging the discussion because you have no counterargument, not because you don’t care. If my posts truly didn’t matter, you wouldn’t have replied.
At the end of the day, dismissing valid points doesn’t make them disappear. You either engage properly, or you prove you have nothing to say. Simple as that.
You really are getting annoying on this forum and I suggest everyone flag his comments as spam. This forum is getting unreadable with his walls of incoherent AI bullsh*t
is a direct violation of Blizzard’s Terms of Service and is considered harassment and abuse of the reporting system. If you actually had a legitimate argument, you wouldn’t need to resort to trying to silence opposing viewpoints.
If you disagree with what I’m saying, debate the actual points instead of violating forum rules by calling for unwarranted reports. Blizzard does not tolerate misuse of the reporting function, and what you’re doing is an actionable offense. Let’s keep the discussion about Scarlet Enclave, unless you’d rather avoid the actual topic again.
Posting factual information is not spam. Staying on topic is not spam.
However, statements like
and encouraging mass reportsare spam—and a violation of Blizzard’s Terms of Service. Trying to derail conversations with personal attacks and coordinated flagging campaigns is far worse than actual discussion.
If you can’t refute actual raid progression data, resorting to baseless accusations and mass-reporting suggestions only proves you have no real argument. Try debating the topic at hand instead of attempting to silence opposing viewpoints. Now, back to Scarlet Enclave—unless you’d rather avoid it again?
Nope, it’s not harassing you because you are legitimately not providing any value to this forum and are actively being “spam”
You are literally copying and pasting your comments in the same forum that aren’t the words written by a real human. That is the definition of spam and I have been flagging all of your posts that could be considered spam.
I’m not reading the trash that you paste from your ChatGPT bot here.
Your behavior is harassment, whether you want to admit it or not. Repeated insults, baseless accusations, and actively encouraging mass reports against a single user violate Blizzard’s Terms of Service.
Calling someone’s posts “trash” and “spam” while admitting to flagging them out of spite is not discussion—it’s an attempt to silence opposing viewpoints. That is harassment. If you had a real counterargument, you wouldn’t need to constantly resort to personal attacks.
If you don’t like the discussion, debate the actual points instead of violating forum rules. Otherwise, this is just more proof you have nothing to say about Scarlet Enclave and are desperately trying to derail the topic.
Now, back to the actual discussion
Scarlet Enclave is difficult but beatable
progression is happening
and Blizzard’s minor tuning adjustments prove they see the difficulty as working. Let’s see if you can actually engage with the topic instead of hiding behind insults.
Stop spamming the forums. You are repeatedly spamming walls of off-topic text and copying/pasting the same long comments.
I’m not reporting you out of spite. I can’t be mad at a robot. You aren’t a real person. I’m reporting you because your comments are fake and you are copying and pasting.
We’ve been through this for several phases now, logs from the first weeks of progression in particular are more a good reflection of player count. People doomed the act same way about naxx but now it’s clear that people raided naxx A LOT
Looking at the comparison to Naxx at the first week yeah the playerbase has grown by about 7k players. So you’re technically right there. But, it’s also dropped by 3-4k out of those 7kish players just looking at the first few weeks of Scarlet. But hey, I’ll believe you maybe we see a surge of players like we did in Naxx. I have my doubts on that though since the reasoning for the surge of players was SE I believe.