You gonna include how much hands on time you spent playing SoD to arrive at that conclusion?
I mean they technically put both and cata Penance is cata And divine storm is wrath But thatâs fine it makes it fun.
I mean thereâs been lots of cough cough Versions of the game which I will not name but cough turtle It is normally the default one everyone refers to.
And the biggest argument is new Zones and new raids well Did blizzard come out and say new zones no but itâs heavily implied.
And we do know there is going to be new quests so raids I mean you could technically call the level up raids Maybe not new but A new coat of paint on old dungeons.
But the concept is completely new And again something people have been begging for years Taking shamanâs Thatâs not tbc Same thing with road tanks or Warlock tanks outside of very very specific situations.
There is throw backs in greatest hits yes from different expansions But there is some new stuff too So you canât say itâs just like they copy and pasted tbc in Classic there is way more to it.
To me what they are doing is new incredible and This is Classic + And this was always going to be the problem When blizzard did something like this.
Because again you ask 100+ Is people what classic + is Youâre going to get 100+ Answers, blizzard has to draw the line somewhere If you want Classic + Then thereâs gotta be a start point.
Whether this be The alpha or beta for Classic + or not Me personally I donât think it is But either way it looks like a lot of fun.
I mean letâs say itâs not Whatâs the absolute worst thing that can happen the season sucks okay Then itâs just a season som Was terrible and they didnât do any changes hardly to that so.
I would rather than throw everything at the wall and see what works Then keep being safe No offence but not everybody wants to play vanilla.
With no changes for the next 20 Years I want something new and thatâs what this is.
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This comment wont age well.
Not talking about irrelevant subjective opinions on class design. Iâm referring to its colossal success.
You meant âin wowâ ? Itâs pratically the same for retailers or classicers.
This thread got a lot of hate, but if you look at the recent threads recently. People indeed do want retail, just âbeatableâ. So itâs the people that couldnât hack retail raiding, theyâre coming here instead.
Classic+ is a different game, but it will be too bad if they took everything away that made Classic Vanilla, and into Wrath on steroids which essentially is casual Retail. Itâs only a matter of time before the ask for LFD comes.
⌠Wtf did I just read?
That the retail mindset is taking over sod leaving any trace of vanilla behind. And thatâs shame.
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This right here is a Retail attitude. Talking about ânot being able to hack itâ. Turning everything into a competition. Vanilla was not an e-sport. It was a relaxed, chilled, casual experience for the vast majority of players. Most people didnât take the game very seriously. It was just about fun.
Retail is many things. The overwhelming majority of features is catered to the casual no? How can you say a game is primarily elitist when most of the features are to accommodate them as in casual. Iâm obviously missing something here as I donât and didnât really play retail in any form save 3 months of OG tbc
Iâm not particularly interested in Retail. And no, itâs not casual friendly. Iâm sure if you ask Ion heâll say it is too. Because he thinks casuals play the game for the same reason he does. As does any hardcore player.
You want to know why I did bgs or dungeons in Vanilla? Because they were fun. I didnât give a damn about gear. It was simply about enjoying the experience. I know thatâs a completely alien concept to some people. Maybe players like myself donât exist anymore. I look around and see a bunch of Zoomers and tryhard min/maxers who treat a video game like theyâre competing in the Olympics.
Give me a version of WoW that tries to capture the simplicity of Vanilla. But sadly todayâs playerbase just canât chill out and not take it so seriously. Because that would be the more typical Vanilla experience.
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This is what your missing. Vanilla was just as elitist. The demographic was wide enough to accommodate different player types. Young kids, those that just didnât have time but older,raiders, etc. so those groups were largely insulated. And because of that The problem is that classic players think that they were the target audience when in reality it was those with disposable income. So , Leroy Jenkins was never funny and barrens chat was never cool. It wasnât just âfunâ. The classic players just had no idea they were being blacklisted.
And for the older players who didnât have the time to raid? They just accepted the fact they couldnât raid and just played the game. Not cry and complain that they couldnât.
From an outsider looking it just seems like blizzard did everything in their power to make things accessible. Epics. Cool looking gear. 5 man raiding. Lfr, lfd, dual spec and the list goes on and on. But what do I know.
And to be fair if I were designing sod, Iâd make it just like casual retail with an easy end game. A game like that would bring in the the most money. It would just be a crying shame that vanilla feel would be left out of picture. And this case Iâm not talking about annoyingly tiring raids but the size of guilds, the world, everything. Every qol features only made world feel smaller
Retail is not casual friendly and Vanilla was not elitist. Sure, there was a percentage of players with that attitude, but it was very, very small. That small percentage is now almost all the players these days.
No one was blacklisted. Youâre simply proving my point that a person who knows nothing except a Hardcore mindset canât understand anything other than what they value in the game. I saw people in Tier gear and there was never a moment thinking ofâŚâNo fair!! I canât get that!â What do I care? I could end any expansion in green gear. If I had fun, thatâs all that matters. And that was the predominant Vanilla attitude. Throwing epics at players doesnât make the game more casual friendly. It just tells those casuals THIS is what the game is all about. And then the game took the path down the e-sport design philosophy. Accessibility is a double edged sword. I think Wrath hit that balance the best, but sadly the clueless Classic team blew up that balance with Mythic dungeons.
Youâre making the typical mistake of confusing casual players with entitled players. Casual players never asked for this crap. Entitled crybabies did.
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i donât know how it feels because it isnât out yet and i havenât played it
Retail elitism from what i can gather is among a small subset. But itâs There. Vanilla elitism was also among a small subset. But the elitism was there regardless, no matter how small.
Lol. Black listing was there. Maybe you didnât know, but if you were a road fighting, player chasing PvPâer, you got blacklisted from pre-mades because you were labled a noob. If you didnât care, then thatâs fine. But it doesnât mean it didnât exist. Among raiding guilds on Mannoroth, we all knew who not just the âok to pug withâ players were, but the guilds also. Some guilds we just avoided completely.
This isnât necessarily about you and how you will and want to play the game - or even how you did play the game. My point is that retail Vanilla was no different than Retail in that elitism was very much a thing. Min maxing was a thing. Everything that people hate about the non casual side of Retail was there in Retail Vanilla.
And youâre absolutely right about entitled vs casual totally different things. Unfortunately, some of the time, not all mind you, they go hand in hand - at least for the vocal minority(? maybe?)
Nope, I feel like this is their chance to make changes to things that should have been fixed in vanilla beta.
- Making warlock tanks, elemental, enhance, boomkin, fire mages, posion-based rogues etc. viable in all content by changing specific resist types to general spell resist (this is critical, or shamans will still be told to heal for the first 2 raid tiers, warlock tanks will have issues with searing pain immunity, etc)
- Removing weapon skill or keeping race based initial weapon skill, but allowing all characters to TRAIN the +5 weapon skill they are currently using for a fee. Just means humans, for example, wouldnt have to pay for sword or mace training cause they already had it.
- Fixing mana issues for shadow priests, boomkins, ret and prot pallies, elemental and enhance shamans (they are somewhat)
- Fixing prot pally no taunt issue (they are)
- Fixing the feral druid power shift nonsense and making their dps viable.
- Using content they had planned but pulled (portal in SW, Hyjal portal, Kara crypts, etc. Deadwind Pass could be an all new quest zone and some zones could get lots of new quests.
- New content for classic levels/item levels.
- Giving druids an out of combat rez (even if its a runeâŚlol)
Fixing clear issues to me doesnât make it retail 2.0, but it does mean we might see something than raids with 17 warriors. It means a fresh look at classic with a clear picture of what were problems.
Iâm excited. People who say its class homogenization would be right if the playstyles of the tanks/healers being added were anywhere close to the same, but they arenât. People should WANT bad specs to be useful. Those stuck in the mindsets like âONLY WARRIORS SHOULD ENDGAME TANKâ arenât reallythe audience for this (or very smart).
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Yeah, I look at min-maxing elitists in video games about the same way I did in November 2004. Get a life with real accomplishments. Enjoy games.
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They were like .1% of the playerbase in 2004. Theyâre almost everyone these days, sadly.
People grew up and the internet matured tbh. Like I was saying before, the core player base was aimed at adults with disposable income when Vanilla came out. Well, these days MMORPG is a dying genre with mainly older people playing it. Youâre not going to have some 12 year old kid with no idea what else is going on in the game.