Social Contract

I respectfully disagree. If you don’t want to call what we do here “discussion,” then I dunno what you’d call it. I do the same thing here all day, every day.

Guidance.
Discussion.
Help?
Conversation.
Conjecture.

If none of that is allowed to go on here, nearly the entire CS forum should be locked. Which it is not, while someone is actively moderating threads. Others have been closed and locked today. If this one was “not appropriate for CS,” then it would have been locked long ago. I didn’t start a derailment, here, until I was asked to stop in a roundabout manner. Everything I said before that was applicable to the OP. Including the conjecture.

Regardless, what I said stands. Even if it isn’t “discussion”. We are allowed to… “talk” here until it gets out of hand and locked. Which I am sure it will be soon. Because I crazily started the whole, “please don’t tell me to stop or be quiet,” thing.

But, fine, whatever. /shrug My bad, folks.

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If you can hold my sub hostage to agreeing to these silly terms at your discretion, you can hold hold my sub hostage to any terms at any time.

Yeah dude, it’s been this way forever.

You completely misunderstood then. The contents of the updated terms are NOT the issue. The issue is pushing new terms - any new terms (even reasonable ones) - after money changes hands. If they’re indeed not new terms, then an “accept/exit” dialog box is NOT appropriate (as I had agreed to them already).

That’s even separate from the issue of sitting down to escape into Azeroth, and instead being forced into a dealing with a 2 page contract that I’m now told is completely pointless as I had already agreed to it. Yay, for playing Lawyer Simulator, instead of World of Warcraft. What fun.

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My apologies. I don’t really think that deeply about gaming contracts, never have for the past forty years or so, and I was just trying to share my own experiences relative to someone asking me to be polite.

For me this is a non-issue, and I’d like it to be that way for other humans, too. Click, accept, be nice, go play. /shrug

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This really goes back to the age old phrase it takes one person to screw it up for everyone else.

Since people want to run amok thinking they can do what they want with no recourse this is blizzard’s way of saying think again.

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You make it sound like such a chore - did you spend hours pondering it, or moments reading the points?

Does this social contract come up every single time you log in? Nope (well, maybe if you clicked ‘don’t agree’ it might).

Did you spend precious hours reading through the actual agreement when you first created your account? If you did, you’d surely recognise that the social agreement is a simplified version and actually missed out a few sections of the full agreement - to highlight some rules that Blizzard would like us to consider and abide by as they push towards fighting against player-base toxicity.

So seems like Blizzard is damned if they do, damned if they don’t…

I can’t believe some players are really hung up over this…

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Other games, banks, credit cards, phone companies, apps on your phone, the iPhone itself, etc. all ask you to agree to the terms of service at least once a year— even if they didn’t change.

It’s for YOUR benefit to remember them and for YOUR safety and knowledge to have all of the information up front and easily accessed to be completely transparent.

It’s a courtesy to the customer. It is absolutely appropriate.

This topic has been discussed to death as it is. If you want more information, you can check General Discussion for even more points of view.

If you have feedback, then post it in General Discussion or use the in game suggestion box. Customer Support Forum is peer to peer help with questions about gameplay. This isn’t a forum for complaints or debate.

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So here’s the issue. I generally try to read contracts. It’s not as simple as “clicking accept”. The reason is they are legally binding, and you can bet that if there is ever a problem, then the other side will hold every single word over you.

A lot of you seem to object to what I’m saying because you believe that I want to behave like an removed. No - I’m generally one of the nicer people you’ll find in the game, and I’d like it if more were nice too.

The issue though is words mean things. When the terms say “identifiable groups”, for example, what EXACTLY does that mean? If I joke that anyone wearing the same silly helmet in game as me should identify as a carrot, and someone calls me a broccoli, then where do each of us stand in the terms of use? Will Blizzard be sensible in these scenarios? I hope so, but hitting “accept” on contracts (because that’s what that was) brings potential consequences, and it’s wise to think about all the consequences rather than just skimming and hoping. You can also bet that in the future they’ll try to automate all this stuff like they do with reporting - so will you be able to talk some sense into a ChatGPT type AI moderator?

The devil is in some of the details, thus reading contracts, is time-consuming and unwelcome when I want to just kill some dragons in a video game - especially when they end up saying the same thing I already agreed to in the past and, thus, just stressing me out and wasting my time (since meanwhile I’m also 1 month into a 12 month sub, wondering what will happen to the other 11 months in the event I happen to find something unacceptable).

Telling people to not be removed again is fair warning and all, but should be something so glaringly obvious that no one actually needs to say it, and I find banning offenders works even better than making everyone re-accept terms of a contract that may or may not have changed that the problem cases obviously don’t read or care about.

Also, all of you running to the defense of Blizzard, let’s run a simple thought exercise. Let’s say this accept window pops up every time you log in and the TOS/EULA changes every few weeks. They’d be perfectly in their rights to do so. If they put in there, like paypal recently tried (I believe it was them anyways), a clause that they can fine you monetarily $1000 for any infraction, what then? And imagine that a few weeks prior/later, they also slipped in that they determine(d) that using the word “mob” for hostile npcs was a slur against Italians worthy of such a fine and they’d go 2 years back in their chat logs looking for infractions (or even partner with discord and spy on voice chats). I’m sure a few of you with 50+k posts would still rush to Blizzard’s defense like always, but I suspect there would be hell to pay on the forums when people started getting their credit card bills, because with such frequent updates no one would catch it before then. Where would you stand? At some point, there is potential for the contract to stray too far away from “pay money → play video game” for people to start to object. Decide where your line is in advance of getting to it. Let’s not inch towards directions we don’t want to go in, down any of those slippery slopes. When I click to play WoW I want to play WoW, not scour legal documents for potential pitfalls and deviations in contracts I already agreed to.

Personally, I recognize the usefulness/necessity of TOSes and EULAs - I just like when they’re fair and upfront with their terms before money changes hands, and after that don’t change unless there is some major new glaring omission that needs to be urgently addressed (grandfathering people into older versions is always an option in such a case). The ideal time for these “accept/exit” windows are before payment, or immediately after with the option to refund if such terms are disagreeable.

What I struggle to understand is that you’ve presumably already accepted the social contract. What changed between then and now?

Nothing is changed. You are acknowledging that you understand the terms you already accepted and agreed to. Instead of getting upset now because something could, hypothetically conceivably at some possible point in a theoretical future, maybe change, why not wait until something does chage, something you actually disagree with or refuse to accept, and get upset then?

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It’s never popped up randomly on my select screen outside of a major patch or anything 1 month into 12 month prepaid sub.
edit:
Addendum: no way immediately tell it was the exact same I previously agreed to, too, of course.
So mostly it was just an unwelcome surprise time waster and buzz kill.

I mean, no, not without reading it, I suppose, which you are able to do before accepting it.

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Hello Ido,

It’s hard to grasp what the point of this long back and forth is. You are for the contract, and for ToS and EULA’s and all that, except also not. You hope that these things stop bad bahavior, but they also might not. It seems like maybe you feel Blizz is out to get you, when really they just want to make a fun video game.

I think if you have a specific suggestion, just go ahead and make it in the Feedback section.

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My main problem, I suppose, is that I consider legally binding “Accept/Exit App” dialog boxes to be rather extreme measures that require time and scrutiny. They have a time and place - like around purchase time, or after major events/changes.

They are less welcome on a random Monday when I’m just trying to get my daily quests done and end up restating much of what I already agreed to, with years of effort on my characters and 11 months of unused game time hanging in the balance if I find something unacceptable (that I have no control over) in the dialog box.

If blizzard wants to put up a reminder on login that we agreed to not be jerks and press “ok”, that’s a game choice. When you’re presented with a 2 pages of text and an agree or button, that’s something else entirely. To me anyways.

And what’s unacceptable?

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This whole post illustrates how you’re the exact kind of person in the community that the contract is designed to counter. You say ‘being polite is only natural’, and yet having to say “yes” to a thing that asks you to not be toxic is so offensive to you that you made a thread about it.

As far as I’m concerned, this means it’s doing its job.

Oh, and this isn’t true. You showed your hand when you complained about “virtue signalling”. That rhetoric is far from unfamiliar.

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I guess at that point, you could put in a ticket and ask for a prorated refund of any unused gametime, but I wouldn’t hold out any real hope of a favorable outcome, because:

  1. digital sales are considered final and are typically nonrefundable (a disclaimer is provided at the point of sale before the transaction is completed, and
  2. changing your mind about something you agreed to several times over the last 17 years isn’t likely to be considered a valid reason to issue a refund.

Then I assume you clicked the latter?

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And there’s 2 violations of the coc right there. You can’t even post without violating the contacts you say you’ve read. Your are exactly the problem that is being addressed.

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If there is no change in the terms, there’s no issue with the 1 year subscription (which appears to be your basis for claiming a potential “injury”). Perhaps a note that this is the same previously agreed terms would have been helpful, but I don’t really see the harm without it.

On the other hand, if you believe there might be a change, go ahead and read the terms. If there were a change, I suspect Blizzard would have included a clear message at the top of the window stating, “Some of our terms of service have changed; please read below and accept the new terms.” And if there were a change and you did not want to sign onto the new terms, I imagine Blizzard would agree to cancel your subscription obligations.

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Sorry for the tangent Orlyia. Didn’t realize that topic was still a little raw. Only mentioned it in response to those comments. Hope I didn’t offend. :innocent:

Not a problem.

I do believe this one has run it’s course.

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