People, including myself, were under the impression that the Jailer drew up a gigantic, elaborate, impossible plan to free himself and enslave the universe. Actually (s’nerd) Zovaal had 25,000 years to keep trying stuff until things went his way. He isn’t super intelligent, he’s just persistent and patient.
Doesn’t change the fact that the Jailer is 100% the lamest character in the WOW universe. Imagine how epic this would have been if he was built up correctly.
Don’t even need to aim for “correctly” - just “at all” would be a colossal improvement…
It probably wouldn’t be. When problems get too big, human minds tend to tune out. We face a few existential threats currently and we’re over here complaining about WoW story-telling.
To steal a line, all drama is local. And if you want people to care, you purge Stratholme, or kick the trolls our of the horde, or bomb Theramore, or lose your religion, or discover that Nathanos has been in the afterlife and your boss didn’t tell you.
Writing a story about an existential threat has to be the B plot. The A plot is what happens between people in the shadows of the B plot.
Yup, Blizzard destroyed what could have been potentially the best character in the lore. Zovaal is at a cartoon level of villainy.
Can you say a few more words about this? Why would he have been good?
So we thought all this time he was The Brain, but it turns out he was really more like Pinky?
Narf!
So Zovaal is Death in the WOW universe, with a capital D. If you think about how all of this has happened, it’s because of time and his persistence. This is exactly what death does - eventually overcoming after enough time and proper opportunity. If Zovaal was built up like, let say, Arthas or Illidan, then he as a character would be more compelling, relatable, complex. But Blizzard hasn’t done this and decided to eliminate any chance of Zovaal being as great as he could be. The Jailer as we know him now is at a Scooby Doo level of villainy.
“Best” is pushing it, especially with these writers, but… “Tolerable”? “Unobjectionable”?
Right now, Zovaal is staggeringly banal, memorable only for his poor execution and utter void of characterization or establishment. This goes for entirely too much of SL, but in his specific case…
They absolutely needed to foreshadow and establish this guy far, far better. And they had a chance to at least get something done.
Throughout BfA, make it clear that Sylvanas has some super scary extradimensional patron. Throw in some references to Helya and Sylvanas’ deal with her, strongly hinting that there was some third party involved that’s beyond both of them. Have her use more of her Maw powers early on. Maybe have some of the Mawsworn show up early, making it clear these aren’t her standard Valkyr. Make Baine’s bonds be forged from the Maw. Make it clear that, beneath the war, there is something else going on.
Then, when it comes to destroying the Crown of Domination… give credit to the Jailer. Do not make it another demented, “OMG, isn’t gothy waifu the COOLEST!?! *_*” moment - have Bolvar beat the everloving death out of Sylvanas, have her get off one lucky shot that cracks the crown and let’s the Jailer throw his weight around (and make it clear that this is not coming from her), and then have him obliterate Icecrown, Sargeras v Silithus style.
Even if he was a totally blank non-entity going in, letting the Jailer show just how insanely powerful he is/can be would have garnered infinitely more respect than… whatever the hell they tried to do with him before hand. A grand enough display of power, even from a total anon, will make any engagement mean “suit and tie” levels of business real fast.
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Do that, and at least the Jailer could have been a “good enough” villain. As it stands, they just plunged into trying to make a “Thanos” without putting any of the “entire MCU” work in. And the results are clear. People want the Jailer dead just to get him off stage and move past this story, not because he’s any kind of love-to-hate villain anyone really wants to watch get beaten.
The idea that he was the driving force that managed to predict hundreds of events from happening in just the right way (many of which he had zero influence in) was a dumb idea. Him instead just taking every chance he could to break out makes far more sense.
Zavaal isn’t even that bad of a villian, it’s the plot holes that make him pitiful…
ok, he captured and imprisoned the Primus… plot hole… Primus makes the Helm of Domination, and Frostmourne… so, HOW LONG ago did Zovaal capture Primus… nevermind, how did Zovaal, escape the Maw, to capture Primus… clearly no one noticed the Primus was gone, except in Maldraxxi. where a civil war has begun.
Then there is another plot hole… the Primus, is not only an excellant engineer, making powerful items, he is also able, to almost predict the future… he stores away his sig even before the Zovaal began his plot…
Denathrias however it’s spelled, switches side… he becomes Zovaal’s henchman… strange isn’t it, shouldn’t Den have been the badguy, the one with all the anima, and not the poor chained up Zovaal… Den didn’t need to escape the maw… IT would fit Den’s charactor, his cov holds the most evil souls, plenty of criminal masterminds.
Meanwhile, the 2 female cov leaders, are just oblivious to the dangers… wrapped up in their local problems… it’s just a whole plotline going on for a long time, that no one sees, before Sylvanus rips off the roof.
Well, I’ve decided to forgive them. They couldn’t do it cuz they didn’t know themselves. They have to change the narrative going forward and tried their best to tie the first lore we’re used to to this new one they are creating. It was also going to be semi-shiite so - best to do is forgive and move forward - and hope the writing of the new storyline is has good as the early ones. And don’t forget, everyone complained about those too!
then there is the maw itself… it seriously serves no purpose, other than to house Zovaal…
the other covenant zones, each serve a purpose… and Revendeth, as the final destination…
in Revendreth, however it’s spelled, the soul either repents, or gets harvested and obliterated… instead, we’re told the unrepented, are sent to the maw… so which is it, they are harvested, or sent to the maw…
Pretty sure the Maw is basically the SL version of death row. Only those who’s souls that are considered irredeemable are sent there. Revendreth is for those souls that don’t fit into the other 3 realms but are still believed can be redeemed.
Right but I’m saying this is too big for people to worry about. And you can’t avoid Death. I think this is the fundamental problem. It would be like if a Galaxy-eating force was coming. What can we do? Nothing. Death is too big. It shouldn’t be a figure. It should be a concept.
They went way too big on this expansion, and it’s starting to look like turtles all the way down. If they think this is good storytelling, we can get “The Jailer’s Jailer” next expansion.
To say the character is basically a paper villain is… an understatement. There is just no substance there. Which in all honesty has kinda been an issue with bosses in WoW for awhile. They don’t want to spend time fleshing out bosses in game and giving them the depth they need to really be someone we know we need to fight.
Yep.
When things go his way it’s just corny bad story writing.
When things don’t go his way it just doesn’t make sense given how powerful he apparently is.
Blizzard have managed to write a character that sucks no matter what they do.
I had always assumed Zovaal’s master plan was to hypnotize everyone with that bare chest. But then the thing with the Arbiter happened and ruined it.
My biggest problem is there is no way for the players to get this feedback to decision makers that are actually managing and above those responsible for story continuity other than sales. So we either abandon an engine that I honestly quite like, an art style I’ve grown fond of, and a game I’ve spent hours on with friends and family to make a point. If enough wallets speak the same, they just close the doors. I hope other video game creators pay attention to this forum, story is important to today’s consumer.
I don’t see it getting better without knowing the feedback loop at blizzard. They should honestly role out in game polls to each player for every match patch cycle. Let us comment on server stability, balance, story, content, etc. directly. Even if it’s a 1-5 rating for each.
Sales and occasional forum posts are all we have to tell them what we want to play.
A character is limited by the intelligence of the person who wrote them.
Not naming names, we all know who.
The jailer is similar to All for One from My hero academy (Boku no hero) without the right story telling:
https:// imgur. com/a/QU4uF7e
ALL FOR ONE have a goal and keep creating a path to achieve it and new routes depending of the events, but Blizzard didn’t explain that and a lot of people think that he has an unique plan an everything worked as he expected. Check image for context