I'd love to see a Zandalari guild that specialized in having sub branches of all the major troll tribes represented.
I think that'd be awesome and I'd love to put a Zandalari alt in it.
10/24/2018 05:34 AMPosted by AzuuPeople (mostly male characters) simply are not interested in RPing, with me at least, when they are told OOC (or IC) that my character is married. Maybe this is just my bad luck.
While I have no numbers to back up my theory, it does seem like in addition to various other harmful, stereotypical traits of real ethnic groups transposed onto Trolls, hypersexuality is extraordinarily common. The fact that so many people still rely on non-canon RPGs where gender relations were basically "males are harem-having sex monsters, women are slaves" does not help either.
10/24/2018 08:13 AMPosted by TelchisI'd love to see a Zandalari guild that specialized in having sub branches of all the major troll tribes represented.
I think that'd be awesome and I'd love to put a Zandalari alt in it.
I'm not sure how this is different than 90% of all Troll guilds that have popped up and burned out over the last half decade other than it is led by characters with Zandalari models. Most Troll guilds have had a "Unite the Tribes" theme, unless by "having troll tribes represented" means more of a subjugation element at play.
Woo hoo, go Ragtul! I'm proud of you. Attempting something where others have tried and not succeeded takes guts. It's fine to take other opinions on board, but ultimately you are the driving force, and you decide how much work you're willing to devote to it. You might even change a few minds in the process :)
I'd personally love to help you get started. Feel free to reach out to me in discord (Flywheel#4087) or in game, or on here. If you're unsure about anything, need help handling drama, don't know how to recruit, I'm happy to help. There also AHRSG (Alliance to Horde Reroll Support Group) if you'd like more generalised opinions from a wider crowd.
Climb that mountain, and plant your flag! Troll RP lives again!
I'd personally love to help you get started. Feel free to reach out to me in discord (Flywheel#4087) or in game, or on here. If you're unsure about anything, need help handling drama, don't know how to recruit, I'm happy to help. There also AHRSG (Alliance to Horde Reroll Support Group) if you'd like more generalised opinions from a wider crowd.
Climb that mountain, and plant your flag! Troll RP lives again!
This has sparked some interest in me to maybe try a troll themed guild, I originally made this guild Iām currently in as a bank alt but I might try to really expand it seeing some interest in the troll RP scene. We could all bounce ideas off each other or even try to build a new network of troll guild RP.
10/24/2018 05:38 PMPosted by ZultaijinThis has sparked some interest in me to maybe try a troll themed guild, I originally made this guild Iām currently in as a bank alt but I might try to really expand it seeing some interest in the troll RP scene. We could all bounce ideas off each other or even try to build a new network of troll guild RP.
Ooh, you and Ragtul should totally have like a meeting or something. See if you have similar ideas, or if you'd be better running two new guilds. It's like asking for dinner and getting a three course meal. I'm so excited to see where this all goes!
I'm gonna put out my 2 cents out here. I've dabbled lightly in the troll guild scene. Thing is in order to have any guild running, you need STRONG STRONG leadership and clear expectations. This helps eliminate a big turnoff in guilds -- poor emote quality. I at this point have seen too many snowflakes with different characters to care, but when your emotes are poorly punctuated, a few words long, and without correct capitalization it turns me off.
Also drama. People wanna start so much crap, but with trolls it can be horrible because in the RPG books trolls were quite bad to their women and had multiple spouses where the women were currency.
Which can lead to a toxic environment in the rp scene. I'm glad there is a distinction on the wikia that Darkspear don't practice this.
Now why do I say all this? Because I think I have found my troll guild that has stuck, and it is not even a troll guild.
I really dig SBC. The Blackfish people have merged with Xuli's guild, and while at first I was hesitant Raj has demonstrated that he really really knows his stuff. Azuu and Raj lead with experience and with what they want to see rather than on the pressures of demand--which on the internet is respectable with all the creeps out there.
In addition, there isn't a pressure to rp. They combine both the PvE and rp aspect quite nicely, and they work hard to do their rp. It's very well structured and a good place for troll rp--Hell I'd say atm it is THE place for those looking for troll rp
Also drama. People wanna start so much crap, but with trolls it can be horrible because in the RPG books trolls were quite bad to their women and had multiple spouses where the women were currency.
Which can lead to a toxic environment in the rp scene. I'm glad there is a distinction on the wikia that Darkspear don't practice this.
Now why do I say all this? Because I think I have found my troll guild that has stuck, and it is not even a troll guild.
I really dig SBC. The Blackfish people have merged with Xuli's guild, and while at first I was hesitant Raj has demonstrated that he really really knows his stuff. Azuu and Raj lead with experience and with what they want to see rather than on the pressures of demand--which on the internet is respectable with all the creeps out there.
In addition, there isn't a pressure to rp. They combine both the PvE and rp aspect quite nicely, and they work hard to do their rp. It's very well structured and a good place for troll rp--Hell I'd say atm it is THE place for those looking for troll rp
I am not an officer within SBC, but thank you for the compliment!
(Raj, however, is an officer.)
(Raj, however, is an officer.)
Yep orc and troll for SBC these days.. with a few other races on case by case basis. Next year we celebrate 14 years as a guild with a few of our original members. Though the ups and downs we continue to strive for a fun place to be that loves jabbering lore.
Now.. Raj and those who are Blackfish are some of the best troll rp'ers I have seen around. They hold regular events and lore discussions on our discord and in game open to all members of our guild, no matter what side of the coin they fall on.
So even if you just want to learn more I suggest you look for them and inquire!
Now.. Raj and those who are Blackfish are some of the best troll rp'ers I have seen around. They hold regular events and lore discussions on our discord and in game open to all members of our guild, no matter what side of the coin they fall on.
So even if you just want to learn more I suggest you look for them and inquire!
10/26/2018 08:04 AMPosted by HugorenfieldI'm gonna put out my 2 cents out here. I've dabbled lightly in the troll guild scene. Thing is in order to have any guild running, you need STRONG STRONG leadership and clear expectations. This helps eliminate a big turnoff in guilds -- poor emote quality. I at this point have seen too many snowflakes with different characters to care, but when your emotes are poorly punctuated, a few words long, and without correct capitalization it turns me off.
Also drama. People wanna start so much crap, but with trolls it can be horrible because in the RPG books trolls were quite bad to their women and had multiple spouses where the women were currency.
Which can lead to a toxic environment in the rp scene. I'm glad there is a distinction on the wikia that Darkspear don't practice this.
Now why do I say all this? Because I think I have found my troll guild that has stuck, and it is not even a troll guild.
I really dig SBC. The Blackfish people have merged with Xuli's guild, and while at first I was hesitant Raj has demonstrated that he really really knows his stuff. Azuu and Raj lead with experience and with what they want to see rather than on the pressures of demand--which on the internet is respectable with all the creeps out there.
In addition, there isn't a pressure to rp. They combine both the PvE and rp aspect quite nicely, and they work hard to do their rp. It's very well structured and a good place for troll rp--Hell I'd say atm it is THE place for those looking for troll rp
While I disagree with most of the points and positions in this post, I will agree that the combination of RPers (who, lets face it, are on average less socially adept than the general population) and a race that the player base often depicts in highly problematic ways leads to a lot of interpersonal issues which don't need to exist.
The fact that so many people still rely on non-canon RPGs where gender relations were basically "males are harem-having sex monsters, women are slaves" does not help either.
The sad thing is that this has been refuted by WoW itself since like, Vanilla. If women were so inferior, they wouldn't have been allowed to serve in roles as significant as the high priests of major loa, which the Gurubashi did. The Darkspear also have some measure of gender equality considering that Bwemba is one of the few prominent NPC's of the faction. And then there's the prominence of women among the Farraki and especially the Zandalari.
In fact the only troll group I can think of where one gender dominates the other into slavery is the blood trolls. And it's women dominating the men.
10/26/2018 09:42 PMPosted by VaeroniaThe fact that so many people still rely on non-canon RPGs where gender relations were basically "males are harem-having sex monsters, women are slaves" does not help either.
The sad thing is that this has been refuted by WoW itself since like, Vanilla. If women were so inferior, they wouldn't have been allowed to serve in roles as significant as the high priests of major loa, which the Gurubashi did. The Darkspear also have some measure of gender equality considering that Bwemba is one of the few prominent NPC's of the faction. And then there's the prominence of women among the Farraki and especially the Zandalari.
In fact the only troll group I can think of where one gender dominates the other into slavery is the blood trolls. And it's women dominating the men.
This.
Unfortunately, this is not always the case within the Troll RP community.
With that said, there are some quality Troll RPers that know their lore. And maybe, with the something like the Troll Community for MG that I have been trying to push, we can combat this and other issues such as Trolls being standoff-ish to everyone, through intelligent, drama-less discourse.
I know the people who have joined so far know their lore and are genuinely happy to talk lore and be connected as a community.
10/26/2018 05:14 PMPosted by Yokumba10/26/2018 08:04 AMPosted by HugorenfieldI'm gonna put out my 2 cents out here. I've dabbled lightly in the troll guild scene. Thing is in order to have any guild running, you need STRONG STRONG leadership and clear expectations. This helps eliminate a big turnoff in guilds -- poor emote quality. I at this point have seen too many snowflakes with different characters to care, but when your emotes are poorly punctuated, a few words long, and without correct capitalization it turns me off.
Also drama. People wanna start so much crap, but with trolls it can be horrible because in the RPG books trolls were quite bad to their women and had multiple spouses where the women were currency.
Which can lead to a toxic environment in the rp scene. I'm glad there is a distinction on the wikia that Darkspear don't practice this.
Now why do I say all this? Because I think I have found my troll guild that has stuck, and it is not even a troll guild.
I really dig SBC. The Blackfish people have merged with Xuli's guild, and while at first I was hesitant Raj has demonstrated that he really really knows his stuff. Azuu and Raj lead with experience and with what they want to see rather than on the pressures of demand--which on the internet is respectable with all the creeps out there.
In addition, there isn't a pressure to rp. They combine both the PvE and rp aspect quite nicely, and they work hard to do their rp. It's very well structured and a good place for troll rp--Hell I'd say atm it is THE place for those looking for troll rp
While I disagree with most of the points and positions in this post, I will agree that the combination of RPers (who, lets face it, are on average less socially adept than the general population) and a race that the player base often depicts in highly problematic ways leads to a lot of interpersonal issues which don't need to exist.
In what regard do you disagree, Yokumba? I am not as experienced in the troll scene, hence I would love to hear your points on the matter
I am new to Troll RP but I can understand why the view on things wouldn't be so good if there was a lot of sexiest stuff going on, but I am more then willing to bet there are more normal relax and Blizz lore friendly trolls players out there then those who are stuck up on the RPG stuff. best way to change how the game is played is to gather together and teach people the right way to grow and strengthen the community.
This helps eliminate a big turnoff in guilds -- poor emote quality. I at this point have seen too many snowflakes with different characters to care, but when your emotes are poorly punctuated, a few words long, and without correct capitalization it turns me off.physician heal thyself
This passage is needlessly antagonistic and might be a turn off to people that want to give troll role play a whirl. I am glad you've found a group that meets your expectations however. That's great but maybe don't be so quick to mock others [snowflake has a dismissive connotation] that may just need a bit of patience or helpful guidance. I would be one of those as my troll lore knowledge is lacking. But I do know about sailing. I wanted to go troll but I hear the Snapping Turtle is no longer seeking crew members. I had a sad.
10/27/2018 12:41 PMPosted by HugorenfieldIn what regard do you disagree, Yokumba? I am not as experienced in the troll scene, hence I would love to hear your points on the matter
Alright, here we go.
10/26/2018 08:04 AMPosted by HugorenfieldThis helps eliminate a big turnoff in guilds -- poor emote quality. I at this point have seen too many snowflakes with different characters to care, but when your emotes are poorly punctuated, a few words long, and without correct capitalization it turns me off.
This should honestly not be the big turnoff in guilds. People being abusive, racist, brain-poisoned by the internet, etc. are far more virulent issues in a guild atmosphere when compared "poor emote quality". This also ignores a great number of people who speak English as a second language, have issues with reproducing their thoughts in text format, or are otherwise limited in their emoting capacity.
Additionally, people using "snowflake" unironically ought to be shot out of a cannon.
10/26/2018 08:04 AMPosted by HugorenfieldWhich can lead to a toxic environment in the rp scene. I'm glad there is a distinction on the wikia that Darkspear don't practice this.
No Trolls practice severe, hierarchical gender roles. If WoWpedia is stating that Darkspear are the only group that do not practice this then the entry is wrong.
10/26/2018 08:04 AMPosted by HugorenfieldNow why do I say all this? Because I think I have found my troll guild that has stuck, and it is not even a troll guild.
I really dig SBC. The Blackfish people have merged with Xuli's guild, and while at first I was hesitant Raj has demonstrated that he really really knows his stuff. Azuu and Raj lead with experience and with what they want to see rather than on the pressures of demand--which on the internet is respectable with all the creeps out there.
I'm glad you found a place you fit in, and everyone should have such an opportunity, but I do not think it is a tenable position to argue that the "Troll guild that is not a Troll guild" is a Troll guild in the same way that other racial guilds are racial guilds. 17% of your guild is made up of Trolls, and if that is the only future of Troll guilds, then I am deeply disappointed.
10/26/2018 08:04 AMPosted by HugorenfieldIn addition, there isn't a pressure to rp. They combine both the PvE and rp aspect quite nicely, and they work hard to do their rp. It's very well structured and a good place for troll rp--Hell I'd say atm it is THE place for those looking for troll rp
It is likely THE only place for Troll RP because there is nothing else available. Quality does not even need to be analyzed at this point.
10/27/2018 05:51 PMPosted by DarvileI wanted to go troll but I hear the Snapping Turtle is no longer seeking crew members. I had a sad.
My bad, my dude. I have a poor habit of beginning guilds with a lot of ideas, but running them all by myself really beats ya down.
2 Likes
I have been seriously considering the post I made earlier in the thread, and the progression of this thread has further generated my interest. I'm aware there's been a few start ups of Troll-themed guilds lately, as well as veteran troll RPers like Yokumba who all have an invested interest in seeing a more troll-oriented scene rise.
I understand also that Horde RP has a weakness: lack of players and nuance. When you log-in and see a only of handful of people in the Valley who are mostly doing very casual RP, it's pretty discouraging to writers who aren't interested in that style of roleplay. The same goes for the troll RPers who are loyal to MG but feel disparate and spread across multiple, larger guilds due to the lack of a solid Troll RP presence. There's been very little drive or spirit for a strong, dedicated troll community.
Still, I believe in the sentiment of "if you build it, they will come."
With the introduction of Zandalari, I will be leveling a priest to 120 with the full intention of creating (or joining) a pan-troll guild under Zandalari leadership. I'm interested in exploring storylines that a Mesoamerican-inspired culture in the Warcraft universe could create. Caste systems, racial preference (Zandalaris thinking they're superior to other trolls, etc.), and Zandalar's sudden shift in allegiance towards the Horde provides ample amounts of conflict one could shape a story around. I'm interested in seeing these same storylines also extended beyond the scope of just the troll guild, with an intention of involving the server at large from both the Horde and Alliance perspectives. It's my hope that this would passively generate a more enticing public scene in what were the traditional hotspots for Horde RP in the past.
Finally, but most importantly, I want to be clear that I'm interested in a standard of RP that actively raises the bar for the typical role-player on Moon Guard. I know there are talented writers already on this server, but speaking frankly, I can imagine I'm not wrong in suggesting that many of these same writers only invest themselves into writing at their best quality when surrounded by others doing the same. I, like many others, match quality with quality ā which unfortunately can lead to a lack of inspiration when that match in quality is consistently skewed. In short, I want an environment where I'm being pushed to explore the extent of my character's being, not just how many creatures he can slay with the roll of some dice at the end of an event or superficial interactions. If that sounds elitist, trust me, I'm not desiring an exclusive elite by any means, but rather a fairly inclusive community that surreptitiously pushes its writers to improve.
I'm a strong believer in the fact that interesting (even if it's controversial) RP is infectious. Horde RP is only as desolate as the storylines/events allow for it to be, with a good example of success being the Symphony of Silvermoon. If there are those in this thread (or otherwise) who'd be interested in trying to pursue a passion like that with the upcoming release of Zandalari trolls, I'd like to talk to them in the future.
Hit me up on Discord, Kerdic#3886.
I understand also that Horde RP has a weakness: lack of players and nuance. When you log-in and see a only of handful of people in the Valley who are mostly doing very casual RP, it's pretty discouraging to writers who aren't interested in that style of roleplay. The same goes for the troll RPers who are loyal to MG but feel disparate and spread across multiple, larger guilds due to the lack of a solid Troll RP presence. There's been very little drive or spirit for a strong, dedicated troll community.
Still, I believe in the sentiment of "if you build it, they will come."
With the introduction of Zandalari, I will be leveling a priest to 120 with the full intention of creating (or joining) a pan-troll guild under Zandalari leadership. I'm interested in exploring storylines that a Mesoamerican-inspired culture in the Warcraft universe could create. Caste systems, racial preference (Zandalaris thinking they're superior to other trolls, etc.), and Zandalar's sudden shift in allegiance towards the Horde provides ample amounts of conflict one could shape a story around. I'm interested in seeing these same storylines also extended beyond the scope of just the troll guild, with an intention of involving the server at large from both the Horde and Alliance perspectives. It's my hope that this would passively generate a more enticing public scene in what were the traditional hotspots for Horde RP in the past.
Finally, but most importantly, I want to be clear that I'm interested in a standard of RP that actively raises the bar for the typical role-player on Moon Guard. I know there are talented writers already on this server, but speaking frankly, I can imagine I'm not wrong in suggesting that many of these same writers only invest themselves into writing at their best quality when surrounded by others doing the same. I, like many others, match quality with quality ā which unfortunately can lead to a lack of inspiration when that match in quality is consistently skewed. In short, I want an environment where I'm being pushed to explore the extent of my character's being, not just how many creatures he can slay with the roll of some dice at the end of an event or superficial interactions. If that sounds elitist, trust me, I'm not desiring an exclusive elite by any means, but rather a fairly inclusive community that surreptitiously pushes its writers to improve.
I'm a strong believer in the fact that interesting (even if it's controversial) RP is infectious. Horde RP is only as desolate as the storylines/events allow for it to be, with a good example of success being the Symphony of Silvermoon. If there are those in this thread (or otherwise) who'd be interested in trying to pursue a passion like that with the upcoming release of Zandalari trolls, I'd like to talk to them in the future.
Hit me up on Discord, Kerdic#3886.
All that said, Zandalari culture piques my interest in a way that other troll cultures never really did. Can't wait for them to become unlocked so I can roll a druid. :D
I have to say that I was disappointed (but not surprised) that there have been zero tensions between the Zandalari and Darkspear tribes shown in game. There's tons of opportunities for it to happen, but I have the sneaking suspicion that people will just play Zandalari like they play Blood Elves, and Darkspear players won't care.
10/28/2018 04:28 PMPosted by VaeroniaAll that said, Zandalari culture piques my interest in a way that other troll cultures never really did. Can't wait for them to become unlocked so I can roll a druid. :D
Trolls are an ancient race. One that's had many rises, many falls, and conclusions that lead to current times that either came about in death, revitalization, eking out a stable (if not harrowed) existence or just quietly minding themselves in the background.
One of the reasons why people will probably latch onto the Zandalari, and why we'll see a large influx of them, is because there's a presumption that a lot of the "tribal" stuff is swept under the rug. It isn't.
The presence and prevalence of spirits and sages, odd magic and a favor for sorcery over science along with intense superstitions are all very much at play. Hell, their magic, alchemy and spirits are the science, and they work quite well.
The trolls are weathering their own sort of post-apocalypse at this point. The Zandalari might have been the first tribe, but all the others emerged and spread out into the world with the same technical and magical standards - Zul'drak had aqueducts and flourishing agriculture in a frigid wasteland, and this was built up without the aid of building onto pre-existing Titan structures.
The tribes and cities that exist today were cut from that cloth but embroidered themselves in their own way, and a pragmatism exists in the resources they're made from. Take a look around the architecture and materials used in troll settlements and the old raids. They aren't incapable people by any stretch, and one of my concerns is that this apparent primitivism (by our standards) will make people see trolls that aren't Zandalari as dull for some reason.
No, they don't have floating crystals chased in filigree, but that's the magic that nearly destroyed the world. I wouldn't want a glowing core of irradiated death floating over my town's well either, and I'd likely be more religious if I could see and speak to my divines directly, or actually converse with dead loved ones.
10/28/2018 05:07 PMPosted by YokumbaI have to say that I was disappointed (but not surprised) that there have been zero tensions between the Zandalari and Darkspear tribes shown in game. There's tons of opportunities for it to happen, but I have the sneaking suspicion that people will just play Zandalari like they play Blood Elves, and Darkspear players won't care.
All the other complexities and bureaucracies still exist, or have the capability to exist, among any of the tribes. Politicking, backstabbing, climbing the power ladder and posturing for status might even be exacerbated simply because of how otherwise small and focused any given tribe is, and that's just internally.
Everyone's trying to climb the steps to the Great Seal in Zuldazar, but recently the Darkspears were more or less given a place of honor while the other tribes (the ones that listened to Zul and agreed to his campaign) are slapped in the mouth.
They'd feel betrayed now, especially with the Horde's presence, while the Darkspear might feel retroactively let down because Zuldazar never reached out to them through their struggles in the wake of this sudden beneficence.
It's off-putting that it finally took a deal with the Horde to initiate talks, but we also did spring the princess from Stormwind County Jail after she was absent for an undisclosed amount of time. That's a fair spotlight.
The powers that be have a habit of standing back and letting things unfold, for better or worse. Or in remaining complacent while taking counsel from maniacal charlatans that have a habit of glossing over important details.
The Darkspears don't have their own district or the largest embassy in Zuldazar, but theirs is the most central and accessible, and under the most direct guard from the city's otherwise absent authorities in the area.
The Amani are beaten down on a daily basis for their hostility against the Horde, the Farraki are treated like wandering thugs and the Gurubashi are off in their own grounds getting taken out by the hundreds under a gong.
I can see the sudden invitation to sit at the grown-ups' table being jarring and disconcerting, insincere and fleeting even, to a group that had been derided as being the Least of all the tribes, despite their efforts proving otherwise, but they've found themselves at the forefront of sealing the deal between Zuldazar and Orgrimmar.
Seemingly, they've gone from being the bottom tribe to basically the only other tribe worth the crown's attention. This is a game of politics now, and the rest of the Horde is probably looking to the Darkspears to push negotiations, regardless of their opinions on the matter. No pressure.
Rokhan doesn't seem to have misgivings with helping Talanji through all of it (rescuing Zul on the other hand...), but then she's a far more active and cognizant presence than her inept father, and has demonstrated a ready openness to work with others. It's likely under her rule and guidance that some past discrepancies and shortcomings are rectified.
"Don't be sorry, be better" is an unspoken mantra across the Horde. I doubt there will be any sort of grand, formal apology for Zul's actions and Zandalar's distance over the course of history following the establishment of the other empires, but I'd imagine the conversation going forward will have a different tone.
Now, while it'd be cool for all the tribes to rehash their relations and resolve a forward route to everyone's benefit, I imagine it's going to be the Zandalari and the Darkspear talking, and everyone else having to listen, which itself might be off-putting to people playing trolls that aren't involved directly in the dialogue.
As for being played as blood elves, yes unfortunately this will probably happen. Beyond the air of superiority it's horribly wrong, but it'll happen.
Even then, the superiority stems less from good breeding and more from "because we're more religious and my gods said so, now look at these dinosaurs and the size of this temple."
Piety and individual merit against the filter of caste status at least makes a more interesting dynamic over how much blighted land you'll theoretically own once Aunt Millie finally kicks off.