Problems: Feels like it wants to be a rogue like, but rogue likes want you to die and start over quickly to get you into the gameplay loop of upgrades to get further and further and further.
TG is not quick at all, and when you die, there are no new upgrades or benchmarks for progress. You just try again with what you have until you are forcibly removed, and when you are removed you get nothing for it but lost time and that feels real bad.
Solutions:
1-Shorten the length of time it takes to complete the run.
2-Give a reward even if you lose for your time invested. I think anima is fine, since that’s what you are providing for people that get no loot at the end of dungeons and this content takes, objectively, less time than TG. But regardless of what the reward is, there needs to be something at the very least.
3-Inject a roguelike loop that if you are booted due to a failure, you may chose to retain some bit of anima power and try again the next run with it at the start. This makes you want to jump back in and have a good time with mixing those powers and reaching the end.
What do you think? Would this be enough to fix it? Does it need more? Does it need less?
11 Likes
The changes I’d most like to see are:
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Revert changes at least to layers 6 and below since it doesn’t make sense to make them more tedious after they’d already been completed
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Make phantasma/gold auto looted as mobs die so we don’t have to walk around looting dozens of times in an already long dungeon. Or bring back non-engineering loot-a-rangs.
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Give us rep and Stygia for doing Torghast so we can get Torghast upgrades on alts without repeating the tedious Maw rep grind on multiple characters. Would also be nice to farm sockets in a non-time gated way. Rep could come from finding objects you bring back to Ve’nari. It also makes sense thematically for this to be a source of Stygia
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Avoid bad starts or the feeling of bad RNG by giving either a bigger selection of starter Anima powers or having two at the start or something. This could also speed it up a bit, especially if you had one power with 3 DPS options and one with movement speed or utility options. This could also be accomplished by better or more Torghast upgrades, but again for alts that would suck if it involved having to do time-gated Maw content, so it should be obtainable just by doing Torghast.
7 Likes
These are really good ideas!
I particularly like the 3rd point of rep/stygia being a reward for alt gameplay. I hadnt even considered that as a possible reward option they could do.
1 Like
Some good ideas.
One I might add is rewarding the ash per floor like it’s awarded per layer.
There are just so many problems with how this place scales and how they’re trying to make us play it.
It seems like they want us to play it like Diablo. But it’s not Diablo combat and unless they really fine tune level design to fit cool down timing it’s going to get messy.
And instead of realizing the design goal - existing game mismatch they’re trying to force it with frustrating nag mechanics.
3 Likes
I really really like this idea. So I go into a layer 3 run, and only make it to floor 5. I should still be given the ash for 5 floors, so that I am rewarded for how far I made it rather than all or nothing.
2 Likes
Do away with that stupid stacking buff for at least lower layers.
Gimme more variety in mobs and not just the back drop/surroundings.
Gimme more variety and frequency in anima powers.
Gimme some hope of some rewards that isn’t solely reliant on soul ash and not walled behind being mythic geared challenges to get some cosmetics. And not feeling bad when end boss is a wall.
Stop bringing that blizz mentality and perhaps think outside the box so it feels like a rogue like and not a super slow dungeon-raid hybrid with no rewarding loot.
4 Likes
have it be a growing difficulty system… don’t throw top-tier bosses or packs of elites at a player until they have atleast had a chance to get a few anima powers.
I have no problem with these things being on like floor 4-5 but to have them on floor 1 or 2, is just downright punishing, and un-fun
3 Likes
I completely agree. Credit where credit is due, the floor 3 half way point is nice for when you get over whelmed early, but it still feels like a slog when you get so hamstrung with bad luck early that rather than make it half way, I would prefer starting over, which, doesnt feel great either.
1 Like
It’s too damn long, too many mobs. Add more traps or more puzzles, something other than constant trash packs. The quest to save the NPCs are pretty lame, who cares if your flute is left behind you’re one step away from being slapped into a piece of metal have some priorities you winged idiot.
4 Likes
I think this is a problem as well. It needs to acknowledge it’s place in the entire risk reward structure of the game. It’s just a weekly capped currency builder.
There is no excitement from possibly getting a gear upgrade like raid or dungeons. It’s just an establish, grind this for that. And not only that once you run it for the week there’s is no that to get. So required grouping in most situations ends up being a charity chore.
1 Like
A few changes I’d make:
1.) Revert the mob health and damage buffs
2.) Add in some cosmetic drops, or a currency that can be used to purchase cosmetic items (toys, mounts, pets, mogs, etc)
3.) Diversify the trash mobs on each level a little
4.) Add in some more mechanics for bosses
5.) Make layer unlocking account-wide
3 Likes
Make it more like a Zelda dungeon. Let us solve some puzzles and push statues around.
Just don’t make it easier. Less mobs, more puzzles…same difficulty. People in week 3 gear shouldn’t be doing full clears.
2 Likes
Yup, I don’t mind difficulty content but some of the changes for the lesser half of the hierarchy of the player base have noticed how the changes, more recently too have turned the content into more of an annoyance and for some a wall.
So I agree that the reward just isn’t there for it to keep SOME peoples game loop going in that part of the game.
I think they went the easiest route to slow people down or kill their interest of torghast all together. They could of done some more better changes BUT probably went by ‘statistics’ and thought, ‘‘what the hey, let’s just do this, add that, and voila’’.
Without real tangible feed back from the players.
I really like number one and number two.
Absolutely agree, and I thought there would be more of that but instead I’m constantly surprised by some assassin or better yet, had a rare pop up from the ground that if I wasn’t in tank mode, would be done for me.
They went a Blizzard route with this like they do with other things. It’s a shame 'cause this content FOR ME was promising to be fun, looked fun during testing, not so much now.
1 Like
Perfect changes IMO, they’ve made it a nuisance to run and extremely unrewarding and sometimes very punishing with little variety. Quite a shame but that’s Blizz for ya.
1 Like
cut the time it takes down by 50-75%
mob health by 50%
add Sygia and maw rep to elites/end floor mobs
It isn’t rogue like. Ever. You’re storming the castle. You’re lying siege. You’re supposed to go head on and feel resistance.
More interesting powers! I want to be shooting laser beams from my eyes! 
I’m tired of having to choose between two or three bad, boring powers.
They need to increase, diversify, and better distribute the rewards.
It can take super long and be stupidly balanced… but only if they drop the all-or-nothing, layer-boss only approach.
Stygia as a reward wouldn’t be uncalled for, and soul ash should be doled on on a %basis the higher you climb the tower. Even these, however, will have limited appeal, so they need to add collectables, cosmetics, and just generally more to the mix.
Torghast is not a terrible idea, but the execution makes it seem like one. It could still be saved, but they really need to do an about face on the stinginess of it and the rest of Shadowlands as a whole.
1 Like