My bad, that was ANOTHER artifact the Horde at the time used against the Pandaren, not the bell, you are right.
What I linked is a better answer for-
Also here’s a few interesting quests I found.
https://www.wowhead.com/quest=31744/unfair-trade
https://www.wowhead.com/quest=31743/smoke-before-fire
https://www.wowhead.com/quest=31741/twinspire-keep
Also as a question for everyone, why is this even such a big deal?
If Horde is allowed to ask Jaina to apologize to the Blood Elves, why cant Pandaren ask Horde and Alliance to apologize to them?
Well… Azerothians do not believe in apologies. They just promise not to kill you so badly next time.
Imagine apologizing for destroying a beautiful part of a country through weapons of mass destruction.
Truly the Horde is American Exceptionalism incarnate.
/s
Again: the apology happened in game. We revolted against our own leader, sieged our own capital, surrendered said leader to Pandaria to undergo a trial. Then we pursued him across realities to kill him when he absconded.
The objections that occur re: The Horde is that the Alliance have their morally questionable actions ignored, swept under the rug, or retroactively justified or outright retconned. It is another pile of bricks in the foundation of Horde = bad guys, Alliance = good guys that has been increasingly poisoning the well since Cata.
I don’t ignore them, I think both factions are completely evil.
Now you may have defeated Garrosh, but YOU didn’t say sorry to ME. Also, what were you doing during that time, hmmmmm?
Being fair no one Horde side really sieged Ogrimmar to avenge the panderan. They did it because Garrosh was a hyper racist with ambitions of global conquest that saw non-orcs as—at best—second class citizens, and it turns out people really dislike that.
The difference is Horde players are looking for an apology from the person who was directly responsible for ordering the Purge. They are doing this because the game simultaneously wants Jaina to go on a gravitas-filled speech about how much they need to make up for the Kirin Tor’s failures while never directly interrogating the one or two specific failures of the Kirin Tor she was a part of all the while having Aethas go on multiple apology tours (one which plays multiple times a day in the main capital of the Horde) for his end of the Purge.
You, on the other hand, depending on which point of the thread you’re at, are either looking for an apology from Aethas for the damage the Divine Bell did to Pandaren that weren’t involved with it at any point to an apology from Aethas for existing in the same supranational organization that a fascist dictator was in charge of to a generalized apology from the Horde and the Alliance.
Sure, the Pandaren are welcome to ask for apologies and reparations from the Alliance and Horde. I just don’t think Aethas is at all relevant to that conversation and you seem to agree at this point.
Yes, I didn’t say sorry to someone in MoP I had never met in a story forum until 2025.
During that time I was aiding Vol’jin’s rebellion and sieging Org. That is literally the only path available in the gameplay. Unless this is some kind of weird LARP, in which case I guess I was in Gorgrond being a Blackrock zugzug.
Because that wasn’t your argument. “Aethas Sunreaver should apologize to the pandaren for the Divine Bell incident” was your argument, which you altered to “the Horde and Alliance should apologize to the pandaren for waging war across Pandaria” when you couldn’t substantiate it.
I don’t think the second thing is in contention. But it also already happened. At pandaren request, Thrall and Varian allowed the pandaren to mete out justice on Pandaria.
I only brought that up because you asked.
The problem woth this is he “looked the other way” when he had info on what was taking place.
Think you can just raid my continent and pillage my farms and not stay sorry? Looks like were at an impass.
Also, how do I know you are not Garrosh in disguise?
Actually, this is a good idea. I want to see this in a cutscene. Fully animated
I’m not crying about daddy all the time.
Absolutely they can, but it’s also not quite the same.
The worst, absolute worst thing that was done to the pandas is the Vale. That same incident was also the “line-too-far” that caused the Alliance and Horde to band together finally to defeat Garry. When it came time to decide Garry’s fate, we all agreed to let the pandas decide, even if it was the worst decision (Thrall and Varian should have just agreed to mutually execute him on the spot). So it’s not like there was never any form of recompense done for the pandas.
And honestly, given we know the mantid were getting ready to swarm harder than they’d ever swarmed before and the zanda trolls were about to raise a Thunder King, the Alliance and Horde didn’t exactly not do a lot to help the pandas previously.
But sure, they’re owed a little bit more too.
But still, this is not the same.
Thats reasonable, I can agree to all that.
Reminds of the gilneas arguments we’ve had in the past and what justice should’ve looked like back then.
I do not miss those days.
Clarity issue on my part, maybe, but I was only ever referring to the Divine Bell affair.
Info on the movement of the Divine Bell. Which we’ve already established isn’t something any Pandaren were harmed by. Heck, Anduin has more right to ask for an apology from Aethas at this point than any Pandaren.
Not that he needs one. Because, once again. Aethas has apologized. Multiple times. In fact, he’s done more to atone for that one moment of indecision where he was forced to pick between someone he assumed would be reasonable and a madman. Probably more so than some actual murderers. I mean, Maiev attempts an assassination and does a whole lot of murderin’ and the best we got from her was a ‘aww, shucks, Jarod, I did some messed up stuff’ before it was all memory-holed.
He has grovelled on his knees. He has surrendered national artifacts to the Kirin Tor. He has gone out of his way to apologize to Jaina. He has been in a similar situation and shown he has learned from his mistakes and wants to do better.
And what does the game do? Make him the victim of a “comedic” SA. And then have his only contribution against the Legion be a joke muffins quest. Now, he gets to be a third wheel in this questline and an afterthought in rebuilding the organization he’s bootlickingly loyal to to the point of parody.
The poor guy deserves better from these writers.
With an apparent lack of interest in handling the topics seriously, I think the better option would have actually been ignoring it and moving on. They’re probably just seeding Thalen stuff now so they can pull him out of the villain hat as some mad void bomber in Midnight.
Bonus points if Thalen ends up killing Halduron or Rommath!
I think the time has come for Dalar Dawnweaver to have his redemption, and the forgotten and neglected mages of Ambermill to be welcomed back to the Kirin Tor!