Sylvanas causes the erasure of souls infinite torture sounds perfect
It did but forsaken players can’t admit that Sylvanas did a bad
I disagree.
The system worked, the Jailer simply lied and showed her a false future to make her believe she was irrevocably damned to the Maw in order to exploit her as his primary pawn on Azeroth.
In reality she might have had to spend some time in Revendreth, but I personally think she would have been sent to Maldraxxus where her warlike spirit and cunning would be a natural fit and very much in line with the Primus’ teachings.
She might have thought she deserved some shining paradise, but that was HER flaw not the Shadowlands. The personal whims of one entitled mortal do not dictate the workings of Death, nor should they.
If that was the case, it would ironically constitute the height of the kind of ‘injustice’ Sylvanas claims to want to change.
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It’s clear that they retconned something from Edge of Dark. We don’t know what’s the truth of her vision into the maw.
The slap in the face is to those undead that are sent to the maw because they aren’t coping with being cursed as well as others. The suggestion that they all should be like DKs is ludicrous considering the curse of death affects the undead differently.
You’re mad? You want justice? How about directing that anger and justice towards the necromancers who are cursing, twisting and manipulating souls in the first place? I honestly cannot fathom why any god like being would judge souls according to what they did while under a curse.
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There is an ocean between “not coping well” and “trying to exterminate all of your still living kin”. The Forsaken managed to, by and large, fall into the later category. Until they have made up for that, they can all go to Revandreth or the maw for all I care.
You mean the Forsaken themselves? They had no problem raising more and more people, despite knowing how bad their existance were.
Because they still have a choice, to do good or to do bad. I’m sure the Arbiter takes the curse into consideration, in so far how much regret they feel over the actions they have done while undead. Because if they feel regret, they are most likely not a threat to everyone else.
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So the forsaken themselves
and sylvanas
its funny how anti sylvanas you are, but I suppose thats how it is when you have a massive headcanon about a character, I know a few night elf players who get mad when that headcanon is shown to be false too.
Being raised into an undead monstrosity against your will is going to do a number on anyone, nobody is arguing that. But arguing that this should automatically give them some free pass because of their condition is just making excuses for them.
Let’s be real…they are not Scourge, they are free-willed undead who can choose to be what they want to be. Just because life (or unlife) is hard doesn’t mean it should be used as a crutch to behave in a morally bankrupt manner and history is filled with people who were dropped into terrible circumstances and still chose to be better instead of being defined by it.
Undead deserve a little leeway considering their circumstances, but when they willfully choose to victimize others they cease to be victims themselves and I’m tired of hearing the endless excuses for it. Stop using the past as a crutch and let them take responsibility for their own actions.
If they want to be differentiated from Scourge, they’re kind of beholden to act like it.
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We can call it whatever you like. Doesn’t matter to me.
Nope. I think its apparent that I’m not blaming the victims of the Curse of Undeath especially in regards to judgement in the afterlife.
Yes, I agree they all have choice. The Curse of Undeath varies from undead to undead; its easier for a Forsaken’s curse of undeath that is akin to a skin diseases to make a morally right choice vrs an undead on the opposite side of the spectrum.
It’s a sad cycle, but much of the time, abusers are people who were themselves abused.
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None of them raised their hand and said “me me me pick me strip part of my soul, identity and conscience away and hopefully I’m still functional enough to make morally right decisions”
They should be 100% absolved, excused, omitted, etc etc etc in the afterlife from any and all actions taken while undead.
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She’s trying to pardon herself.
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Ah, yes. Jaina’s famed genocidal atrocities against [RACE NAME]. No one could stop her bloody rampage across [LOCATION NAME], which surely earned her a spot in [AFTERLIFE NAME].
Oh, you mean when she froze a handful blood elves and sent them to jail? Yeah, that’s comparable to trying to wipe out a race, sure.
Jaina wanted to do bad after losing an entire city and everyone in it (except the civvies who escaped and then got turned into target practice dummies by the Kor’kron), but didn’t, and was ultimately talked down out of that bell-tower before doing something that would make her into the same kind of monster as Garrosh. And her goal was never genocide, it was to destroy the Horde as a faction, not just to slaughter the people within it.
Sylvanas, however, decided to attempt genocide on the night elves (and it was very literally phrased as genocide) because maybe the Alliance might attack them in 50 years or something (except it was actually to feed their souls into unending torture until said souls are obliterated entirely to fuel the Jailer’s armies).
Y’know who else had soul-crushing torture by Arthas? Bolvar, who took up the mantle of Lich King and kept the Scourge in check for the better part of a decade, and now goes on to continue the fight against the Jailer.
What Sylvanas suffered isn’t an excuse for her evil. All it does is inform it, and just makes her seem like a coward compared to the people who fight against her.
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She outright tried to destroy Orgrimmar, and in her internal monologue got her jollies off to the thoughts of killing the children too. Only didn’t succeed because she was forcefully stopped.
Your post is contradictory, you’re saying Sylvanas is not entitled to a better afterlife but admit the Jailer lied.
So either she is entitled and was lied to, or Jailer claimed her rightfully and she isn’t entitled to complain. By the latter’s logic, every soul in the maw is rightfully there. And remember, presumably that’s where she ended because of the Val’kyr (so the theory goes).
She was “destined” to the Maw before this, so it’s a bad argument. Her committing atrocities is just her going all in given that her choices no longer matter.
She got her free will in undeath and did the wrong things with it.
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Let’s not forget what was done to the survivors that had the misfortune to be captured by the Horde… including being made to fight each other to the death.
And a hell of a lot more than “two wizardss” were killed by the mana bomb. the city was not empty.
I highly doubt she was destined to go to the Maw so much it was the Jailer’s influence who made her think as such, given that there were people who supposedly wiped out entire races on a whim who ended up in Revendreth, and pre-Cata Sylvanas was evil but not nearly to the same level she is now.
Even with that in mind, the “threads of fate” are constantly in motion and changing/shifting. If, for argument’s sake, she was destined to the Maw, found that out, and then to avoid eternal torment decided to become a better person and make the Forsaken into a faction of refuge for the restless dead and whatnot, don’t you think she’d be assigned someplace else?
Doing better by making the Forsaken into a refuge for the restless dead is what she had been doing. Up to and including taking down the Lich King. And after accomplishing that, she took her own life.
That’s when she was lead to believe that -in spite of doing all that- she was still destined for hell. Upon realizing that, she seems to have devoted her efforts to ensuring she doesn’t meet that fate. No matter what.
Which doesn’t make her later actions any less terrible, but it does make sense.
Faced with an eternity of never ending torture, a lot of people would indeed choose oblivion. Even if they have to take others with them.
I agree with you. The argument others presented is that she deserved to go the to the Maw, which makes no sense why would she be when worse characters got lesser sentences.