Then they can’t be punished, because they were born that way and thus born destined to be punished since they effectively have no free will in the matter. IS it moral to create a person, predestine them to be evil, and then punish them for it? No.
I know you want to punish her (or perhaps defend some real beliefs…), but eternal punishment is simply objectively, demonstrably immoral and illogical.
You don’t know much about the very successful brainwashing techniques developed by the American, Soviet, Chinese, and North Korean governments after WWII, then. Look into things like Project MKUltra and the circumstances under which is was created.
Huh, I agree with you on the first point, ya got me there.
As for the second, I’d have to look into that. But I will say that the idea of actually being able to ‘rewrite’ someone’s personality is likewise immoral is it not? Having that sort of change forced upon you is as bad as never having been capable of making a choice at all.
With that in mind I suppose I’d be back to the idea that the maw is for souls that refuse to change. Well, so long as I’m under the assumption that rewriting someone is immoral.
Rewriting, and encouraging repentance through punishment, what’s the difference? Timescale? Both are just the act of persuading someone to be different through force or argument or what have you.
Persuasion, brainwashing, rewriting, arguing, convincing, these are all the same things, just with varying amounts of force used and differing timescales over which the force is applied. When someone changes their mind or undergoes a change of opinion, what is it that happened? They were changed, one small element of their personality was rewritten.
Revendreth IS rewriting a personality. It is brainwashing. Repentance IS the act of undergoing brainwashing. One is just a nicer word for it.
depends on why the mass murderer mass murdered the people in the first place , does the punisher deserve to be punished for mass murdering criminals and murderers ?
does a saint is truly a saint ? some people just act in a sain like way to feel righteous and good about themselves not because they are actually good people and care for others and so they are just selfish
there is more to it than this
a murderer might not be a bad person just like a saint might not be a good one
A brain is essentially an organic computer programmed by chemicals. Change the chemical balance just a tad and you then have a radically altered personality.
But when she offed herself, she was expecting oblivion, and got the endless torment of the Maw instead.
So maybe all she wants is for people to be able to end.
Except Arthas WASN’T going to the Maw.
By that logic, on an infinite timeline, everyone that is good will eventually turn evil as well. And then back to good. And back to evil. Commiting new finite crimes along the way.
And an infinity of finite crimes = infinite crimes.
The fiction doesn’t really work without the assumption that some people will never change, and the Arbiter can sense those people.
The same reason why if you let a serial killer or gangster write law the first thing they’d do is make killing legal, because Sylvanas is a mass murderer and evil person and wants to remove all accountability from her actions.
Except that’s not true, if a murderer kills someone they are dead forever, why shouldn’t they get punished forever?
Lol that’s so ammoral and you know it. Your use of the word ‘mistakes’ is suspect. Like I don’t consider doing an evil action with full autonomy a ‘mistake’ just because you end up regretting it later, whether it’s because you grew a conscious down the line or you miscalculated the risk/reward ratio.
I believe that everyone deserves a second chance, and it’s clear through the afterlives that are present within the Shadowlands that the narrative team believes the same.
That’s not how it even works IRL. You don’t get a second chance when it comes to crimes of a certain magnitude, you go to prison for life or get the death penalty.
It actually does work like that. You can get parole and also can have your prison term reduced, you can also get pardoned or pay bail. Additionally you’re forgetting I was referring to the “afterlife”. There’s even things like reincarnation. It’s a little ridiculous to think that if you do something wrong it should be with you for all eternity.
And those religions are wrong, I really don’t see your point. We already know people get second chances in the current wow afterlife. Your entire argument doesn’t apply. Besides, even in real world religion it’s not even true. Christians can ask for forgiveness and they are spared.
I am in complete awe that anyone would think its ok to send someone that suffers with the curse of undeath to the maw. Like completely befuddled. As stated in a recent disucsion; the excuse is “others with the same curse choose to be good” when in fact the curse of undeath isn’t the same for everyone.
Its like if someone who had the part of brain that causes care, positive emotions, etc etc snatched out by some necromancer goes to on a murdering spree. Then the person is sent to a horrible afterlife for doing what they were wired to do.
That’s wack.
Edit: It reminds me of the Forsaken I met in Brill who can’t even remember his family. Imagine if he had all of those things that made him a normal and good person taken away by a necromancer and then he’s sent to the Maw for Blighting Southshore.
Being undead does not give you a carte blanche for doing anything you want, with no consequences. Especially when there are, as shown, good and kind undead who endevour to make the most of their situation.
But if an undead, who did terrible things in their (un)life and then regretted it once they died, came before the Arbiter, the Arbiter would feel that regret, and act accordingly.
The maw is reserved for those beings who are not neccesarily those who have done the worst, but for those who are completely unrepentant, who will never believe that the terrible actions they took in life were anything but justified. Those kind of souls can’t be allowed elsewhere, because they are a genuine threat to everyone else, or could become one if they gained power while in their choosen afterlife