Im also of the opinion that PvP can and should be tuned its own way without affecting PvE tuning and Blizz rarely does that. Its why i dont consider PvP in this.
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The problem is in the roots, not the branches.
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??? Blizzard has been removing utility from all 3 rogue specs over the years while also watering down damage, survivability, and pvp talents. Rogue doesnt have any branches. It literally cant branch out. Its roots are the only reason its still played. How are you gonna complain and not even properly identify the issue?
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Overtuning damage does not fix the problem, since the root of the cause is class design.
I’m not a record player, I’ve talked about the problem numerous times. Scroll up, or look at other threads. Copy paste WoD Era rogue and the class would actually feel cohesive. Develop talents from there. That is my solution. A gimmick is not a class, afking until blades/flag or cb/sectech is not a class.
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Are you still talking about PvP here? Cause thats not how PvE is. The PvP issues are not class/spec issues, theyre blizz issues. Sub currently plays the best it has since at least Legion if not earlier in PvE.
But they are??? You CANNOT bandaid fix the spec with tuning, blizzard will reply by nerfing damage, or by nerfing our cc… Or both lol, why play a rogue in pvp when you can’t sap off your own blind unless you shoot yourself in the foot by prestunning for it.
Rogue blind - 2 min cd, 1 target for 5 seconds.
Paladin AOE Blind - 90 second cd, aoe, 5 seconds…
Rogue burst - Every 90 seconds with blades/flag
Pally burst - Every 30 seconds with wake, every minute you get even more damage lol.
If you can figure out a way to balance sub rogue around having a shadow dance for every DR (our primary vehicle to burst, no dance = no damage) without making us over tuned I would love to hear. Insanity is when you do the same thing, but expect a different outcome. This has been an issue since legion, how do you balance a class that has the best burst and cc off diminishing return? You simply cannot.
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They arent because PvP can be tuned entirely separately from PvP. That includes its design.
And yet you think they didnt make this change just because of PvP? No PvE player cared because no PvE player saps off of blind. If we did, i woulda said that change judt shouldve affected pvp the way so many design implementations are only for PvP.
You actually implement design changes rather than removing stuff. I just told you Sub plays the best in PvE that it has since legion and you responded with irrelevant babble.
With all that said, so many specs have gotten the ability to straight up immune themselves or fly into the air out of reach that at this point, i think Sub should let through 5% of its damage or something when in Flagellation (or different ability). The way to implement changes is by adding thematic stuff to cancel out others strengths, not by calling for the removal of more stuff (in this case subs heavy burst damage)
Legit Pallies and Hunters do not go by the same rules as other classes when it comes to CC and burst. That is the problem and it was kind of a problem in MoP too when Hunter micro CC had to be brought in line.
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Can’t fix through tuning, but sure lets keep going.
No pve player? The only thing carrying this class is the pvp demographic. Maybe more players would be on the class if changes were made with ALL CONTENT INMIND.
That statement is entirely subjective and opinion based, if sub was “playing so great” why are we among the least played classes, period. Like I said, earlier I’m glad YOU like the class, but seemingly the rest of us are not feeling the same way.
Insanity is when you do the same thing and expect a different result.
#reverttowod
The difference between rogue and ret is one class is clearly finished and had love put into it, the other does not! Ret changes with the times, rogue changes are pulled from a hat.
Edit - The reason the class cannot be fixed with tuning too is seasons naturally start much burstier due to armor ratings dropping, for the first 2-4 weeks the class might feel pretty strong. Though by the end when all players get their gear, health and hp values inflate, and you suddenly find that “burst” is no longer as threatening as it once was.
I also asked you how we can balance a class that has damage and cc for every shadow dance and you just told me add more stuff to the class lol. In order to see change, somethings must be removed or replaced entirely. If you truly want more thematic things added for the class, room must be made. The parking garage is full, if you want to fit a few pagani’s you’ll need to get rid of the ford escapes.
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Its actually not considering BfA exists and Subs current design is just fine tuning of what began in SL. It plays better. I woulda taken that statement further back than Legion, but i did not play before that and players often say Sub played well in Legion so i already took the opinions into account.
Because we are the only class that still uses decade old ability animations for over half our abilities. Because we are one of the few classes that got little to nothing in terms of visuals added to the Hero Talents. Because its a class that has a high skill ceiling and people typical look for stuff thats easy to sync your teeth into. Rogue as a whole has problems. None of those problems lie with Subs spec design though some tuning could be done.
I explicitely said design, not tuning. Youre an idiot that needs to cry elsewhere.
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I didnt tell you “just add more stuff”. Reread what i said and the reasoning i gave for the example provided. Gain some reading comprehension. Stop being stupid.
Using the ignore feature might be better for the both of us 
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Itd be better for you because you could then continue to live in your fantasy world of made up facts and bs.
Im doing just fine explaining to you why youre wrong.
Do not fear I am hard to ignore.
I am everywhere and anywhere when it comes to Rogue topics. That is why even in the great halls of Ravenholdt discord I am infamous.
Flips hair
What exactly is made up or bs?
Hm, i was logged off onto this character… interesting
Anyways I’ll be waiting, can’t call tell me im making stuff up without explaining what exactly is made up. That’s called gaslighting. Makes your argument look like it’s out of bad faith.
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This is becoming an epic showdown.
Runs and grabs popcorn
because you flood every thread with bad takes and misinformation to the point that the rogue population is noticing. bragging about being infamous isnt a good thing, your actively admitting that your gladly spread bad inccorect info just for internet style points. what kind of person actively lies on the internet for bragging rights ?
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Keep waiting. The information has already been posted, you just need to stop playing dumb and read it.
You have a reputation of not playing Rogues and posting Paladin feedback in the Rogue dedicated thread in beta. It seems to me you are more infamous than me.
P.S. I will always be here every step of the way to correct all your mistruths on the Rogue forums. Thank you!
ive never once posted paladin feedback in the rogue thread
stop lying