I noticed a lot of posts about the current state of DKS, both tanking and damage dealing alike (especially damage dealers)… And I admit that I’m on and off about this game since I sub every other month to get the things I like from the Trading Post Objectives.
Been on my Warlock more often than a DK now since I find Warlocks are a lot more well-rounded nowadays. Summoning Demons, friends and dropping cookies in a very unique way possible is what made me like my Warlock so much.
And when I DO play a DK. I find myself to play Blood more than any other spec now, surprisingly. The fact that the damage dealing Dks are in such a questionable state doesn’t help, got me raise an ultimate question.
Because I kind of noticed a pattern:
There is a rework movement for both damage dealing specs for Dks. Especially after when Ret got reworked, along with Paladins getting a Brez, it gives even less reason to bring a DK.
Death Grip is feast or famine in terms of usefulness. When you DO grip something, it’s a very powerful tool. If you can’t grip something, it’s a useless tool. It is currently a defining tool when it comes to DK as a class.
You also have a Mass Grip and Grip over Time. Problem is, the former is exclusive to Blood, the latter is… well… It’s not instant but it’s something that brings enemies to you that I find Blood does overall a better job at this.
So many PvP modifiers to the point where I even admit that I don’t PvP often as I wish I could as a DK. It is a pretty crappy experience with DS healing nerfs, WotN nerfs, etc. Along with questionable nerfs to PoF and Reanimation with even more questionable philosophy of changes that the experience playing against a DK takes precedence over the experience playing AS a DK. (I disarmed a Frost DK during his PoF phase as a Sin Rogue, I’m bad at it but can’t help but to feel absolutely terrible doing so)
Rot and Wither… Very questionable to the point Chillpills made points about it. Such a shame that a lot of people just dismiss his complaints about the DK’s current state and telling him to do something else or deal with it as Ret Pallies had which is kind of mean.
Unholy is relevant IF it gets buffed by PI due to its crazy scaling which is not very healthy for the spec.
Frost is still pigeonholed into two one-dimensional playstyles which is BoS and Obliteration (Where 8.3 PoF Blizzard?). My issue with Frost atm is that the spec feels fragmented as RP just feels bad to use with lack of synergy Frost Strike provides. Even with the buffs and numbers, I would still have unfortunate gripes about Frost.
DK AND Hunters are the pure-damage dealing classes I currently know that requires you to put a point into an interrupt when it could be allocated into something else. Hunters do not have this problem however as they can still afford to deal decent amount of damage as well as providing nice amount of utility.
DK requires to put a talent in Control Undead but Warlocks don’t with Subjugate Demon? These are very niche abilities but putting Control Undead into the tree just adds clutter. At least AMS is warranted since Rogues need to allocate into Cloak of Shadows anyway.
AMZ is nice. But it scales better with Blood since the cap scales with your health.
So many dead talents for General DK tree:
– Why on earth would you allocate into Clenching Grasp?
– Why is Soul Reaper so weak?
– What’s the point of Blood Draw?
– Enfeeble really lives up to its name especially if you are not unholy.
– Weak talent points is not even exclusive to the General DK tree either: There is really no reason to use Frostscythe.
– Sacrificial Pact and Death Pact are probably one of the worst healing cooldowns in the game. Here is a funny fact, Death Pact gives you more healing absorption than what it heals if you are affected by healing reduction debuffs like Dampening and MS. You COULD just not use it when you are affected by MS, but an experience player would apply MS when you are low on health. Not sure if MS is abundant but the more MS sources there are, the less useful these abilities are. ALSO FUN FACT, SAC PACT IS WHAT DEATH PACT USED TO BE!
This post is not really a complaint per se but just a food for thought about the current state of Dks. Because I REALLY want to play this Mechagnome again. Problem that I just can’t help but to think when it comes to the previous sentence would be: Why?
Because Blood Dks have more accessibility for content, granted they don’t do as much damage as other tanks, but their sustain is ridiculous and it’s fun. They do enough to MAYBE consider climbing keys.
I can’t say the same for our Frost and Unholy brethren. If you successfully climbed with them, then well… Good for you! I just have a question to ask that I ultimately have a hard time answering myself other than Dks being one of the coolest class in the game:
“Why should I play a DK? And if I am to bring a DK for a Deeps slot for my M+ (If I feel like one that is), why should I invite them?”
The only reason to bring a dk dps to m+ is if you don’t have a blood dk, and if you need grip. Otherwise paladin is way better at providing the same type of role. Frost’s damage isn’t even competitive with the good m+ specs
No one is going to waste their time trying to sell someone on a class that just posted a giant complaint about that class. Just go play another class you enjoy.
literally no reason to bring one after amz nerfs and brez being handed out like candy. Other classes have a better damage profile with short cds, do more consistent damage outside cds while having group utility that actually matters. Shroud/sap/blind on my rogue for example. My spriest has PI, big off heals/shields, clense etc.
You would’t bring a DK to a random group, you need PI and a tank that knows that running a group of adds out of dnd essentially negates the dks’ damage. It’s actually insane how my rogue and priest feel like actual classes that can perform well in a group while contributing instead of leaching off group comp like my dk. Sad. Ultra sad when you consider that DK is, thematically anyway one of the most if not the most interesting melee.
While blood is a lower damage tank, I don’t think many can deny the fun of having such agency over your own health in dungeons.
It also doesn’t suffer from the set issues that both frost and unholy do with 5 gcds of set up to do anything. Blood boil feels good and snappy. Death and Decay for blood does ACTUAL damage and isn’t just pity damage to facilitate cleaving strikes. Death strike feels good unlike frost strike and to a lesser extent death coil (epidemic is great for unholy imo).
The dnd thing is a real shame, if cleaving strikes was either deleted for frost and we had frostscythe not be awful or it was tied to remorseless winter instead it would be a nice bandaid for waiting for a rework.
If I remember right, I think Shattering Bone does the heavy lifting when it comes to DnD damage.
The fact that Blood DK can always do the latter, is what I think it makes Blood an overall solid tank (Well… not sure about solid tank for higher keys because I don’t really know).
Yes, dammies are a bit lacking but I always thought it is a supplement for tanks.
VDH can do it similarly… to the extent. Just not as well as BDK.
The post kind of highlights a BDK can simply do more than a FDK and UhDK.
Grip and abom has insane value in every dungeon not only dps wise but survivability.
Blinding sleet is a great stop as well.
Amz is okay, still absorbs an okay amount of damage.
We have a range kick.
Arguably the fastest at battle rezing
We have an additional stun via our big dragon boy as frost.
Frost 4 set is very strong in m+ and once more people get their 4 set I could see much more people playing in higher keys.
Unholy is unholy in m+ if played properly and godly if played with a good tank.
Insane survivability via death strike, AMS, ibf and lichborne. You should never rot out if you have a target to hit.
For everyone complaining that people will just bring a Ret. Ya, paladins are very strong this tier can’t deny that. Scaling wise they are falling off though. Ret mains who have gotten geared are already screaming for buffs.
Play what you enjoy.
This is a game.
A good frost DK > a bad Ret Paladin any day of the week.
Thank you for your surprisingly productive answer. Still doesn’t answer my question of inviting a deeps DK but it’ll do I guess.
Also Tzunomi, doesn’t Blood do most of mentioned things except for this one?
I mean even BDK has a Gorefiend’s Grasp so there is that going for them. Kind of a reason why I’ve been enjoying myself with BDK more than the other two. :c
I don’t really agree on your last statement unless the frost dk is MUCH better than the ret. Ret can just do damage, I don’t think ret is broken really but just has such a good and simple baseline that will do damage in all situations.
Dk on the other hand has SO many stipulations on whether it can do any real damage. Do you have dnd up, do you have pillar up? Does your tank stand still when you place dnd? Did you get a mechanic during pillar? The list goes on. The fact is that dk is WAY too dependent on its cd windows, just like old ret was btw, and anything that goes wrong will MASSIVELY screw your damage. It just feels really bad.
The ease of play I mentioned in ret isn’t exclusive to just ret btw, it also extends to fury, outlaw, havoc, windwalker, and most other melee. It really is just dk that has to try so much harder because of how the spec is so pigeonholed into damage windows and cooldowns.
Inviting DPS dks… invite them. Low keys it doesnt matter what you bring really unless something is just harder to pull off, but in around +20 Frost is performing better than ret… and every warlock spec… Its actually upper mid in terms of overall performance.
You haven’t played with any good frost DKs with 4pc it seems.
From what Ive seen and experienced oblit can be quite insane and easily competitive with other melees. I do feel bad/feel bad for others when a tank likes to constantly kite out of DnD though (they really need to fix this cleave dependency).
The 4 piece just doubles down on exactly what I said though. It relies on pillar and makes the pillar window even MORE important.
I didn’t say the damage was bad, I’m saying their consistent damage is bad and that DK has not a single option for consistent cleave without stipulations like I said.
The talent trees have failed dps dk players who used to have options for consistent damage and not being pigeon holed into a burst play style.
