So, while mythic+ players receive spammable 210s, which is 3 ivls lower than heroic raid gear, under extremes (mythic+ exclusive player, vs a player who only raids and caps out at heroic raiding), the Mythic+ player averages out better because their chest offers a higher ceiling seemingly than the raiding player. Over the span of probably a month, the averages close up and then probably eclipse after several months.
The mythic+ player IS indeed able to get the best gear in the game via the chest barring item equivalents of the last two bosses of Mythic Castle.
Further, the changes really solve the issue of gear inflation we currently face where we’re literally inundated with high ilvl gear. Gear in BFA feels pointless and unsatisfying, and the rate of acquisition needs to slow down drastically. I think the changes to Mythic+ where theres a pretty hard cap on the quality of spammable gear you can get, where the other sources of gear are capped on quantity, but have a higher average ceiling.
I really feel as though the tentative changes coming in Shadowlands promote doing varied amounts of content (Do heroic raiding for a higher average floor, do your Mythic+ for a higher ceiling), while still being permissive of kind of being a single content type of player.
Absolutely, I think the gear is too accessible from end-of-dungeon currently, and that probably should have been more top loaded with the weekly chest from the get-go
M+ is designed with legion and BFA gearing in mind though. Trying to transport the game back to WoD, MoP, Cata, or BC era seems to be a hard balancing act.
I think BlizZard should have boosted PVP and raiding gear to mirror the gearing options of M+.
Plus, PVP gear vendors will have more gear options and set bonus which alleviates the problem of PVP players feeling forced into M+ for gearing options and ease of gearing. However, heroic raiding is still caught in a pickle because of how other raiding difficulties exist. LFR, normal and Mythic simple squeeze it out IMO and frankly making heroic raiding gear slightly better isn’t going to be enough incentive for people to take heroic raiding seriously like back in the day.
Yeah it’s difficult to retrofit the modern framework of how the game is played (the existence of Mythic+, 4 raiding categories, etc) into an older system of gearing.
I think you could probably just pare it down to Normal Raids (and make it probably as difficult mechanically as heroic raids are now), and Heroic Raids (as difficult as current Mythic).
Something needs to be done with LFR, I don’t feel strongly one way or the other, because there are some pros and cans, and I don’t think one side drastically outweighs the other, but we can honestly keep the ilvl low enough to make it irrelevant competitively so that the difficulty serves the purpose of being a taste test of what the zone and encounters are like.
LFR in WoD was storymode and perfect for a super casual PVE player like me. But with legion and BFA LFR difficulty increased. At that point the mechanics started to matter more which made LFR pointless if you did not have a coordinated and dedicated group working in unison.
Basically LFR has become Normal -lite. So Normal and Heroics are competing with each other.
It is going to be tough to balance so many raid difficulties and having different tiered gear rewards. With this level of gear stratification coming from so many difficulties someone is going to feel left out in the end.
Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head in regards to the stratification of gear levels. I like what they’re doing with awarding higher level ilvl drops from the last bosses of a raid tier, but I think between that in tandem with four difficulties of raiding, PVP, and Mythic+, it’s just too unwieldy to juggle all of it, and as you said, someone is going to feel alienated no matter what. There isn’t a clean central reference point in terms of ilvl/difficulty/content from which all gearing is kind of centralized around.
It’s still literally the same as a tank with or without nerfs, let me describe raiding as a tank to you
Taunt swap at X stacks
Taunt an Add
Move boss to X
Maybe interrupt something.
That’s literally it, the entire thing. (Skitra is the exception)
Anyone with 2 semi functional braincells can do that, Tanking raids is not engaging as a player it’s boring and for the most part downright easy.
I havn’t cared about raiding since M+'s inception because raiding is boring, the above reasons are why raiding is boring, you’ll see outside of one boss that i havn’t killed yet i have every boss i care for on farm for mythic raiding because they have what i want for mythic+
I love these dumb dime a dozen posts. How many “players” finish their 15 key before they kill first heroic boss? You can pug earlier heroic bosses the very first day. How many people do that with mythic 15?
Outside of guilds, reaching 15 or having decent IO is a climb. Heroic raids are far too easy to grind, atleast a good chunk of bosses. Gearing in raids is painful. So now you will be forced to grind same usless first boss 15 times to score a single piece of gear you can use.
There is a really massive misunderstanding about how gearing worked in M+.
Sure, you could get 465 pieces relatively fast compared to other content. Your ilvl could easily get bumped up… the problem was, the gear didn’t matter. Because of titanforging, corruptions, and stat priority, just getting to 465 meant nothing.
As is, to get a specific piece of gear still could take an incredible amount of time. Took me running waycrest manor 20+ times to get the ring I needed on my dh. That’s 12 hours or more invested for one item.
The gear that mattered in this last season was from raid, horrific visions, and your chest. Despite the 100+ keys I have done on my druid, I have one piece I’m using from the actual dungeons.
I can agree the gear shouldn’t have been higher then heroic, but I also don’t think it should be lower either. Considering the huge nerf to the drop rate, the ilvl drop was unnecessary. It’s already tough to get things you need out of M+ with how gear is now. To that, the raid still has a lot of gear that is far superior then the 465 gear that drops out of M+.
The claim raiding as being boring is widely a personal matter. For some such as myself it’s fun. It’s fun to band together with 19 other players to work towards a common goal.
If raiding was as simple as you claim nobody would be buying AotC and we’d all have CE.
Look i don’t want to be that guy but the people buying AOTC are either playing at 1000+ or are literally incapable of mashing buttons in an even inefficient manner.
I won’t argue that Mythic Nzoth, Carapace of ilyg aren’t hard, they are tough and require well organized well co-ordinated groups and are somewhat engaging even for tanks, but the rest of the raid? It’s… yeah… i’ve already written what it is.
