So lets talk the Nerubians

I was just wandering around Spider City and happened upon a faded holocron on the top of a roof…

Turns out Anub’arak was asking Nefress for help when the Scourge was rampaging across Northrend. She refused to send aid, saying how Anub’arak sought out the war with the Scourge and he could finish it alone.

We know that’s factually untrue. The Lich King went after the Nerubians to consolidate the Scourge’s power base and give them the Infrastructure they’d eventually need.

What I find interesting about this is how it re-contextualizes Nefress. To begin with, I thought she was a cool leader. Stood up to the Black Empire, tried to consolidate and preserve her people…

Now I get it. She’s a coward. She even acknowledges her armies could turn the tide in Northrend, but to send them would earn them “a fate worse than death”. Nefress could have ended the Scourge threat before it began by giving Anub’arak’s forces the shot in the arm it needed to repel the Lich King!

But even more then that…pulls out map of Azeroth…that suggests the Nerubians have the means to travel from Khaz Algar all the way to Northrend itself. Anub’arak was sending envoys. That’s a not insignificant distance, seeing as how I doubt the Nerubians have a navy.

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Portals?

See, I thought that Azj’Kahet was formed AFTER the original War of the Spider, by fleeing Nerubians. Is this not true?

If it’s not true then it continues to make no sense why they put Khaz Algar where they did and having all these mismatched races being thing there. If it’s a long-colonized kingdom, then we honestly should be fighting Qiraji or Mantid instead.

From memory, and trying to weave all these threads together into a useful rope …

The Nerubians actively rejected worship of the Old Gods, even going so far as to stick closer to the surface to avoid hitting deposits of Saronite and Old God minions in torpor, buried deep under the earth to escape detection from the Titan Watchers and Keepers.

During the War of the Spider, the Nerubians were actually winning until they dug too deeply, breaking that rule, and accidentally unearthed the servants of the Old Gods. While the war with the Scourge was a grinding battle of attrition, with Nerubians being naturally resistant to the Plague of Undeath and needing to be raised individually and at great cost, the Nerubians of Northrend would have been badly diminished by the end of the war, but victorious.

Stuck between Old God minions who were abusing the Nerubians’ previous connection to the Void, and the Scourge, they were screwed and ended up either entirely co-opted into the Scourge as Undead, or small packs of living Nerubians fighting a guerilla warfare-style retreat while what remained of their people fled through underground tunnels.

Queen Nefress knew if her Kingdom came to the aid of Anub’arak, the Old Gods would re-enslave her people too. They’d crush the Scourge between them, but the Black Empire would claim all that remained of the Nerubian people, weakened and spent from crushing the Scourge. And given the cut-throat political arena that is Azj-kahet, she had to frame the narrative in a way that would keep the general populace happy and make it difficult for her detractors or would-be rivals to use it against her.

Anub’let started the war, so it wasn’t her fault if he lost or his people suffered. No mention of the Old Gods or their agents to prevent a panic amongst her people. Refusing to drag her people into a needless conflict to paint herself as a caring ruler who sought the well-being of Azj-kahet above all else, making her a patriot and ‘one of them’ to the citizens and lesser players in the Great Game played out amongst the webs of the city.

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I think it merits mentioning that the nerubians were actively winning against the Scourge, but the fact remained that every dead nerubian ended up getting turned against them.

Having reinforcements from Azj-Kahet could’ve prevented the Scourge’s wrath entirely. It might’ve led to the salvation of Azjol-Nerub, with Silvermoon and Lordaeron by extension. There never would’ve been a Stratholme. Arthas would still be peacefully ruling in Lordaeron until the Burning Legion figured out another method of invasion.

Or. There would’ve been twice as many undead nerubians.

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caves. so many caves.

anyway i kinda like that nefress isn’t blameless or particularly benevolent. I think she would gladly leave us to die if she were still in power-- she wouldn’t be an Issue, but she wouldn’t be Helpful, either. Ansurek has a point, and that’s part of what makes her kinda compelling. Her people are starving. And Nefress would rather let a few nerubians die than take action. It’s kinda hard to take a woman seriously when she says she feels the struggles of her people-- but clearly isn’t suffering the way they do.

Ansurek is a pretty competently written villain imho. She’s up there with Elisande for me.

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There’s also an interesting point of interest that we’re never told when the Nerubians of Azj-kahet started to go into decline.

We know that Nefress rejected the call to rejoin the Black Empire, but we don’t know if this was during any of the Old God ‘re-awakenings’, be it the Wrath era under Yogg’Saron, the Vanilla era under C’Thun, the Cataclysm era under the ‘united’ Old God front, or the latest, when N’Zoth tried and very nearly succeeded in reviving the Black Empire entirely.

I’m putting my money on either N’Zoth, which puts the Faceless One’s ‘curse’ on her at roughly 6 years ago.

The Arathai arrived and began settling in the Hallowfall cavern around over a decade ago.

I have a theory (a GAME THEORY!) that the Nerubians relied heavily upon the Hallowfall region for food to supplement what they could farm and hunt for in their ‘native’ level, but the radiance of Beladar made actually settlement there unpleasant in the short term and untenable in the long term. But as the Arathai arrive and spread out from their shipwrecks to create actual settlements, and with the Nerubians’ in decline due to their reliance upon using scent and tremor-sense rather than sight to hunt in a region lit by perpetual daylight, they were quickly pushed out of these new hunting grounds, and with a healthy population undimmed by war or being recruited into the Black Empire, and centuries of studiously avoiding the Earthen due to there being no reason for them to pick a fight with a race obvious in decline and unable to deviate from their ‘Edicts’, the Nerubians got caught with their carapaces around their ankles.

They ran out of food, as we saw in the cinematic. We’ve seen in game that the Nerubians are prone to at-times self-destructive levels of spite and self-interest, such as eating mates out of tradition and peer-pressure, actively sabotaging vital infrastructure for personal advancement or petulant grudges and producing sub-standard equipment and supplies to undermine a rival or hated superior, even as their society crumbled around them. Rather than undergo rationing and accept diminishment until the situation could be resolved, much of the upper crust of Azj-kahet turned inwards and against each other in internal feuds and spiteful displays of authority and connections despite the obvious damage it was doing to their kingdom and their society.

And Nefress was exhausted trying to keep things from spiraling further, raise her daughter to be a worthy successor if the many threats and plots against her own rule succeeded and trying to stabilize the kingdom enough to keep limping along, as we saw in the cinematic, while her daughter Ansurek was willing to let parts of their society burn if it meant turning this ship around and reclaiming dominion and authority from those who would continue the destructive downwards spiral, but lacked the maturity and wisdom to realise that the kind of power required to pull that off would never come without an equally potent price attached, assuming falsely that the Harbringer honestly did care about the Azj-kahet Nerubians and their plight.

Nefress looked at it all as ‘big picture’, that hundreds would starve but thousands more would live on once the population reached equilibrium with their food supplies, and in a few centuries more, enough of the Earthen would go permanently offline that the Nerubians could just bypass the Arathai entirely and start systemically taking over the Ringing Deeps and the Isle of Dorn without suffering grinding attrition.

Ansurek looked at it as ‘small picture’, that she could risk losing thousands of people in the conflict because the strong, the intelligent and the cunning would be left alive to revitalize the Kingdom of Ajz-kahet afterwards, since they’d wipe out all their rivals with the aid of the Harbringer and the Ascended Nerubians, and with no rivals left to compete with, the Nerubians could claim all the resources, mineral, organic and Titanic machinery alike, for their own survival.

They’re both compelling characters in their own rights, and it is foolish to think Nefress was a good or noble character, but she was a skilled politician and would have known trade and diplomacy would have served her better than open war if and when a superior foe showed up. Ansurek … she’s too naive, and too focused on ‘greatness’ and short-term gains, to have survived overlong as Queen once the Harbringer was done with her and left to pursue the next step in her plans for Azeroth’s World Soul.

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honestly not to misogyny-in-games on main, but i love when female villains have motivations beyond being manipulated or damaged by men, and are allowed to be whole, compelling characters with actual impact on the storyline.

that Ansurek and Nefress have stories that are not heavily based around victimization is so refreshing. that their flaws are not explained away by being victims of circumstance, but are allowed to exist in the narrative as real and consequential flaws, is just peak.

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It would be nice if all female characters were allowed to pass the bechdel test, not only for conversations, but also for motives.

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Same. I get the sense the cinematic was very much mentioning the Black Empire as being N’Zoth’s Black Empire.

Another cog to add to this particular wheel though, the Mad Nerubian. Now obviously, this individual is barking mad and thus should be suspect. But if we take her at her word, she’s a Queen prior to Nefress who was forced out for trying to do exactly what Ansurek is now doing. But “her people” forced her into exile. Suggesting that the Azj-kahet Nerubians as a whole are a bit cowardly in their willingness to put their thoraxes to the flame.

Again…Mad Nerubian. Take with a whole block of salt what’s said. But if another ruler was forced into exile for being too assertive and war mongering, it could also explain why Nefress was hedging her bets.

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They use the same quick travel system as Petyr Baelish

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We the players know this but the characters may not have.

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How dare you bring very simple and basic storytelling elements such as perspective, bias, and character motivations.

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I’m not that far into doing all the side quests and story events in spodor city but we’re also working with the most loyal to Nefress so they’re going to have some biases ideas about their dead queen that might be incorrect but these dudes literally live in a hole underground so I don’t fault them for not being up to date on the lore. idk it’s also WoW I don’t think any of it is that deep. I guess I just don’t really see the controversy.

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The nerubians you deal with left the black empire due to a prophecy that following them would lead to a fate worse than death.

Considering what happened to all the Nerubians who stayed behind in defiance of the Threads of Fate you can hardly not understand her stubborn cowardice.

The prophecy went exactly as fortold.