At the highest tier of M+ your drops will be lower ilvl than someone doing a heroic raid, and the loot will be 1 per(except for a possible % increase for every level past 15), meaning you could have to run up to 5(or more) keys to get a single upgrade? Lol Because you get less wasted gear in your chest(if you grind a massive amount of content, that is) hardly negates that it will take a really, really long time to feel like you’re progressing.
Listen, QQ no one cares I get it, but it’s been a 14 year ride for me so I’m going to say my peace. This was a pretty hard slap in the face to people who don’t have time to raid.
Someone who can run a couple mechanics that never deviate, in an atmosphere where 1/3 of your raid team can die and people can still kill the boss and get loot is going to gear out faster, and better than people dealing with weekly affixes designed to augment difficulty on top of dmg/health boosts per key level, on top of the original mechanics of a dungeon? Seems like a pretty unfair judgment call to make.
Pretty disappointed to find out my only way to have relevant gear in this game has been neutered to a point where I’m not even excited about the content anymore.
Seriously ouch, I was really liking SL until about a half hour ago.
I mean, I guess some people can. I hate making ‘a dramatic exit’ post so I didn’t say anything about it in OP, but I’m just not going to play anymore. We deal with a lot of nonsense in this game, from illogical class tuning, to removal of universally loved things(like PVP vendors–even though they finally gave them back), to enormous time sinks like having to do dailies to level gear etc., but having to do 30-40 keys a week to get the same % of gear drop chances(for lesser gear) as someone who clears a raid a week made M+ more of a time investment than raiding, so I no longer have time for it now either.
Either way, I hope SL is as awesome as I had planned on it being for people who aren’t feeling as insulted as I am right now. Good luck with your adventuring.
it doesn’t matter really where you get your gear from - as long as you optimize your stats correctly for the content.
for example, some classes might want to take more mastery into mythic+ than haste, and visa versa for raids.
so to answer your question, nope! you don’t need raiding gear you can actually gear up in dungeons and stay there indefinitely if you like…but i wouldn’t recommend that
I like it. M+ isn’t raiding. Raiding and guilds should be the focus of WoW. They involve the highest level of community which is ultimately how MMORPGs last so long. WoW has been in steady decline since destroying raid and guild functions.
yeah i agree…that’s why i think pvp and mythic+ should have higher ilvl gear personally.
static content that stays the same for months isn’t harder than pvp or high level keys.
EDIT: I dont’ mean higher than raid level gear - i just mean it should be on par because it’s debatable whether or not raiding is actually more “difficult”.
human element alone adds unpredictability - which makes it pretty clear pvp is a lot harder than any PvE content.
You act like final straws are irrelevant. This loot change directly impacts M+, as the gear you get from it was necessary to keep doing higher keys. That’s just not the case anymore.
This is the core philosophy of Shadowlands right here.
It will be interesting to see how it plays as we move into month 2 and month 3. Can’t really say now because that part of things hasn’t begun yet, and the impact of the new design of the endgame won’t be felt really until another 4-8 weeks have passed and it percolates through the playerbase as a whole.
I do agree, but at the same time coordinating larger groups is it’s own issue. You can pug raids, I even got my ahead of the curve that way. Yet it’s not something I recommend doing, because most people are clueless. Yet pugging mythics at least up to 15, is considerably easier. Or has been in the past anyways.
Thus I’m alright with the fact that heroic raids & mythic dungeons are about on par with each other in terms of gear quality, and Mythic Raiding is it’s own beast.
Edit :
My honest opinion is that they should allow mythic gear to continue to improve past the 15 mark. Like well into the 20s (perhaps 25) in order to get gear slightly worse than mythic raiding. I think that would be a better compromise honestly.
Learn2PuG from Raid Dungeon Finder. If you are badazz, just join Elitist groups that says “Underperformers would be Kicked”. They dont waste time carrying noob individuals. You dont need to finish the whole Raid in one sitting. On me who is Casual who mainly plays M+, I play some few Raids I was able to get AoTC easily. It is do-able. Modern WoW is casual-friendly.
Flex raiding makes getting a team together significantly easier, and with how much room for error there is - and a finite limit of bosses - also makes it easier to get people together.
M+ seems to be intentionally a handful of ilvls lower than heroic pieces, which is my issue with it. But I’m a casual at this point so it doesn’t actually affect me, since I don’t enjoy M+ that much.
So you overreacted to a couple ilvl points and took the opportunity to badmouth raiders? If you want people to respect your way of playing, maybe start with respecting other people’s ways first
It doesn’t matter because you’re wrong anyway. Raiding should give better gear
OMG yes you will get exactly what you need to keep doing higher keys. I swear, no one actually looks at how the system works and just see “something gives me a lower ilevel and something is less loot,” but doesn’t pay any attention to what else you get.
Geebus, just wait for M+ to start and see how the system goes before throwing your hands up and quitting.
you can actually gear up in dungeons and stay there indefinitely if you like…but i wouldn’t recommend that 
