I 100% agree heroics have a lot of room for error. I would even say you don’t have to put out 90%+ of what your class should be able to dps wise either. You could safely get away with like 60 to 70%.
That said, I don’t feel that’s the case for mythics raiding. You really have to be on your game there, and if we’re debating between a mythic 15 dungeon and a mythic raid, that’s not really a contest. Again as I said in my edit, I would be good with gear going up past the 15 keys, and into the 20s, to give people better gear.
I mean that’s not really true, if you take BFA you could get mythic dungeon gear to continue into the the high 20s. If gear is going to be capped at a lower item level, people will not be reaching those numbers anymore, unless they do mythic raiding, which will give them an edge over people doing mythic dungeons. Which I can understand why some would be salty about that.
I mean, it isn’t my fault that heroic raiding is less difficult content then 15+ keys. Anyone who would argue different either doesn’t have experience with both, or just wants to flame. I wasn’t meaning it as an insult to people who raid, but as a pointless slur Blizzard made against people who don’t raid but push keys. Sorry if you assumed I was trying to offend you.
Mythic raiding is entirely different than heroic raiding, yes. I’ve done both and the step up in personal responsibility, effort, and skill is immense. The overall logistics is also crazy as well.
OP hasn’t really responded to me since his knee jerk reply to me.
Mythic raiding is an entirely different beast to a degree. I was never a mythic raider beyond a few bosses here or there so I can’t compare it specifically to where or how difficult I found it. It’s still static content but from my limited experience with it I would say it’s considerably more difficult than a 15 key.
mythic raiding is def harder than a +15, no doubt (at least for the first couple of months it is out, and depending on the affix/dungeon,etc.)
I don’t think mythic raiding is harder than the world class people doing keys in the 25+ club. affixes alone add way more complexity to it than something that stays the same for the duration of its existence. you can also “lose” in high end mythic+ because the key is lost if you fail the challenge.
that’s my take on it and how i would judge the difficulty.
that’s also why i think some sort of affix system for mythic raiding would be the one thing to keep it fresh, interesting and challenging.
pvp is still the most difficult content in the game - and its rewards should be equal to mythic raiding imo…and if ilvl is based on difficulty of content - pvp gear should give the highest.
Just to pour salt in your wound this reduction in ilvl to deny raiders the ability to trade heroic raid loot through the personal loot system.
The reduction in loot they said was because they removed titanforging but in reality it’s so that you have to wait a week regardless of what form of content you do for your chest. This gets those subscription numbers up assuming people don’t just leave.
Personal Loot and M+ was designed with the Titanforged loot pool in mind, this means that instead of having 1-3 items per item pool, you could have 20+ because there was ilvl varations of each item, because of this blizzard could throw loot at you non-stop, because you weren’t garenteed to get the BIS version of the item you were after, so it was fine for everyone to just get lots of free easy gear.
But without titanforging the total item pool is much more restrictive, and in order to keep you on the gear treadmill.
In Legion and BFA, you were incentivized to chain run M+s to get your BIS items from certain dungeons if you had the keys for it, and most people would just join PUGs of the instances they wanted.
Now I am not saying this is a good system, if anything they needed to greatly revamp how gear is handled in Shadowlands without the titanforge sized loot pool per boss/instance, but they didn’t.
Essentially, they kept the chance of getting your BIS item per week the same, but they removed all the lesser version of the loot, and yeah, that ain’t fun.
After the first couple weeks of a season, how much gear were you actually getting from your M+ dungeon? Now take away WF/TF/Corruption and how many actual upgrades were you getting? I’m going to guess not many at all. Most upgrades came from the weekly chest.
The new version of the weekly chest is a lot better than the old one. You get to chose among several pieces, which means you won’t get the same pair of worthless bracers three weeks in a row.
As for raiding, based on last expansion, outside of specific trinkets, I got almost no gear from it. All of my upgrades came from M+ as it was easier to run higher keys than it was to kill raid bosses, and by the time you got halfway through the raid you already outgeared it thanks to m+ and its cache.
I get that you’re not happy gear won’t be raining from the sky in dungeons any longer, but for those of us who do raid, it’ll be nice to actually see loot be relevant for the fist time in two years.
As for your description on how raids work, I’m going to guess you’ve not done much raiding. In BfA with a couple exceptions (SotS without good interrupts for example), +15’s were barely as difficult as the last couple bosses on heroic and the first few on mythic. Those mechanics you think are no big deal are in fact difficult to deal with at times. Compare that to affixes you’ve been dealing with for years in dungeons that, stop being new after a month or so and never change again for the remainder of the expansion outside of one seasonal affix that went from annoying to trivial to making things EASIER.
People saying you don’t need mythic raid gear to do mythic+ You seem to forget how our community is. They might not need it but they will need it. Ilevels will be checked and people who have the higher ilevels will get the group.
I’ve seen this argument a lot since Ion said something along these lines a few years ago. Not that you heard him, but it became common since.
In my opinion, gear awarded should be equal to the difficulty/effort put in to get it.
If a +15 is way harder than a heroic raid boss, they I think it’s silly to give better loot from the raid boss. I’m talking non-subjective difficulty to a noticeable degree.
All that said, I’m not even a hardcore M+ person…I kinda prefer raids. I just don’t like seeing easier content give better loot. I mean, that’s what my argument is based on; I have no idea how difficulties will pan out overall.
