I was very excited for a return of Garrosh. I played a sub-optimal Venthyr Mage just to meet up with my boy Hellscream again, whether it be a redemption arc or “Garrosh just broke free and teamed up with Denathrius!” plot. I was ready for ANYTHING.
But alas, all we got was Garrosh’s behavior being his own downfall. Do they really want me to believe that Kael’thas could be redeemed but not Hellscream? Are they seriously implying that the snake woman who DRAINED ALL THE WATER IN OUTLAND could be redeemed just by being a part of an undead afterlife club? But Garrosh being tortured for YEARS, suffering the wrath of the Jailer himself, would stand by the Iron Horde to his dying breath?
I’m just so upset about this. Sylvanas is not the character I wanted to see make a return. Rest in peace, Garrosh. Lok’tar ogar, brother.
As unfortunate as it is that Garrosh does seem to be gone for good, and we don’t get our wacky buddy cop moment where we team up with him as part of the Venthyr covenant campaign, I think it’s undeniable that he received the best writing of any character this expansion - and got the most fitting send off he could have ever wanted.
Garrosh literally walked backwards into oblivion, flipping off the Jailer, Thrall, and the player on the way out. It was amazing.
So I totally get that you’re sad he’s gone, and feel cheated over what might have been, but let’s try to be happy that he got to go on his own terms - And he doesn’t have to be part of this trash narrative anymore.
No. And I don’t think they expect you to believe any of that. The thing about Garrosh though is that he has no intention of atonement for his actions, because he has no remorse for them - he believes he was in the right, and has said repeatedly he’d do everything he did over again, and the only atrocities he regrets are the ones he never had a chance to commit.
Which is actually exactly why so many people like Garrosh and were happy with this ending for him. Redemption suits characters like Kael’thas well because much of the frustration with him came from his sudden swap to villainy in Burning Crusade. It doesn’t suit Garrosh because so much of his fanbase finds appeal in his unrepentant warmongering.
To have him apologize for it would be a betrayal of his character. Sure, it sucks that he’s gone, but he got to go out on his own terms and as the Garrosh people loved.
Kaelthas isn’t “redeemed” yet. He’s still on his path and he can still stumble and fall as it’s clear that he’s still struggling to come to grips with it, although he’s clearly made enough progress to renounce his royal title.
But a key thing in redemption is that one has to CHOOSE the path and I find it fitting that Garoosh went down as the unrepentent bastard he was in life. Like a certain Democratic Senator Garoosh blamed everyone but his own failngs.
As for Vash’j the aferlife isn’t about good or evil. She’s in Maldraxxus and not Bastion for reasons.
Garrosh has been the high point of this expac so far. I adored the character in WotlK and Cata, was upset with the direction they took him in but I enjoyed the resolution.
I don’t think their was a reality or universe where Garrosh would try to redeem himself to the even more arrogant, vain, and much uglier elves of the afterlife.
Yeah even as someone who genuinely liked Garrosh, he’s not the kind of guy who would say "yeah fair enough that was mean " when a bunch of non-orcs are trying to make him think so.
If anything it’d make him more determined to resist… which it did!
It’s worth noting too that Kael’thas’ original betrayal was clearly out of desperation, and frankly, not very well thought through. Maybe it was his frustration with Illidan or the sheer euphoria of the power he was able to wield… but it doesn’t take much thinking to realise that Kael flew in the face of all his previous beliefs.
As far as we knew at the time, the Legion was directly involved in the creation of the Scourge. Kil’jaeden manipulated the entire situation - set in motion the very events that led to the destruction of Quel’thalas and the Sunwell. The Legion destroyed everything Kael cared about, and drove him to the very addiction that led to his defection.
It doesn’t take much for Kael to critically analyse his actions and come to conclusion that they were actually harmful to his people, not helpful. That he had actually done the wrong thing… and even been manipulated into the service of his greatest enemy.
Garrosh on the other hand… As far as we can see, he did nothing that was out of alignment with his own beliefs. In BC he was terrified he’d be weak to the fel and doom his people… and yet to the very end of his reign he actually oversaw the persecution of Warlocks, and never submitted to the fel. In WotLK onwards he was obsessed with the strength of the Horde and securing its place in the world, especially around the greatness of the orcs, and he remained committed to that ideal right up until his death.
He has never acted in a way that was out of alignment with his own personal morality… and so despite it being glaringly obvious to the rest of us that he was bad, from his perspective he always acted in the interests of his people, and doesn’t regret a thing.
The problem was however that his pride and fear kept him from seeing the full dimension of his own policies. His Orcs First! viewpoint did a great deal of damage to the Horde, his authoritarian rule wound up creating the Horde’s first intrafaction war. Revendreth’s ongoing reading of sinstones is full of people who made the same kind of mistakes.
After all… you know what the road to the Maw is paved with…
It doesn’t seem that anyone even tried to redeem Garrosh. He obviously went to Revendreth when he died but it looks like Denathrius recognized his potential as an infinite anima battery and handed him directly to the Jailer as a result.
From what I can tell… Souls are pretty much expected to redeem themselves. It doesn’t look like Revendreth does counseling It simply puts souls on the rack, harvest their anima from their sins and expect souls to reboot themselves in the process.
That’s only because of his superpower, the ability to change his moral code on the fly so that he is always in the right. I believe the proper name is mental gymnastics.
I mean, off the top of my head, Garrosh kidnapped Magnataur children to blackmail their parents into fighting for the Horde with the promise they’d be freed afterwards, only to ‘free’ them in a way that would 100% result in their deaths.
You’d have to have a warped view of reality to say that he considered what he did moral.
Garrosh had his chance of redemption and atonement in War Crimes when he had his talks with Anduin. He chose time travel instead. At that point Garrosh made his choice. And it is nice to see that choice remained consistent.
The thing is, I think he did think it was moral lol
Most reasonable people would disagree, of course. But Garrosh is a nationalist, even a full on jingoist by the end. It doesn’t take too much to think of real life historical figures like that. As far as Garrosh was concerned, anything, no matter how vile or unsavoury, was fine if it benefited his people - the orcs. Kidnapping the children of a semi-intelligent race to force them into servitude ultimately benefited the army, and thus was acceptable in his eyes. Invading the sovereign territory of other peoples gave the Horde more resources, and thus was okay in his eyes. Wiping the city of Theramore off the map eliminated a strategic weakness, a potential threat to Orgrimmar, and was thus ok in his eyes. Arranging the assassination of Vol’jin eliminated dissent within the ranks (in theory lol), and was thus okay in his eyes.
When I’m talking about Garrosh’s morality I’m in no way comparing it to modern real life human morality, or even to orcish honour, vague a concept though that is. I’m talking about the character’s beliefs. It’s very clear that Garrosh’s values the orcs above all else. Everything and everyone else is just a means to an end
So why would he regret his actions, which from the very beginning to the very end of his character arc benefited the orcish people, when they’re 100% behind his personal values?
That’s not what I was talking about, kidnapping another races children is one thing, but he purposefully went out of his way to make sure all the children he kidnapped ended up dead.
Because he doesn’t just put his own people first.(Which honestly I have no problem with in theory, but obviously when ‘put your people first’ is confused with ‘screw every other race over’ it’s different) he goes out of his way to screw over other races just because they aren’t Orcs.
Also I’m not talking about regret, I’m talking about whether he considered what he did evil. People can know what they did or do is wrong and feel no regret because they’re evil pos but that doesn’t change their moral view.
If nothing else, you can appreciate Garrosh rejecting the Shadowlands. Everyone else completely drops who they were to become some dull, uninteresting cog that loves their new job because the story wants them to.
Though, it would have been amusing to see Garrosh attempting to try and take over the Shadowlands to launch another vengeance attack against Azeroth, and with how inept and clueless the leadership there has been displayed, he probably would have had the place on lockdown after a couple days.
" when a bunch of non-orcs are trying to make him think so.