So I noticed a pattern

Lore Story Forum
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Some spoilers
At the start of War Within, Khadgar sacrifices himself in a poignant moment, giving his life to save Alleria, who takes the story lead over arching story of The War Within. This felt like a powerful and meaningful sacrifice.

We also have the storyline of a character (whose name escapes me) who is nearing death, and we help guide him to his chosen resting place. It’s a strong, emotional moment in the story.

Then we come to Baelgrim, the leader of the Stormward, who sacrifices himself to take out the Nerubian general. This moment, however, felt a bit forced. The idea that there was no other way to set off the barrels of unstable mead seemed a little contrived, and his death didn’t carry the same weight as others.

As for the High Speaker, Eirich, his corruption meant he had to be deposed, which was an appropriate and necessary story beat.

Where I start to feel some dissonance is with the transition of leadership roles. I agree with Brinthe’s elevation to High Speaker. Her story made sense, as she was clearly positioned for such a role but was held back due to her status. Similarly, the Grave Keeper’s apprentice stepping into the role she was training for felt natural and well-earned.

However, the decision to make Lufsela the new leader of the Stormward didn’t sit right with me. Baelgrim’s death seemed unnecessary to bring her into this position, especially since she was a minor quest giver beforehand. There were other characters, like Olbarig, who felt like more logical successors. He had important knowledge about the island where the Stormrooks could be summoned and formed a bond with Baelgrim’s rook. His rise to leadership would have felt more consistent with the story’s progression.

My concern here is not with who leads but with the narrative balance. When several leadership changes happen in quick succession, with many male characters being replaced, it can feel less organic and more like a pattern designed to meet a specific outcome. I think maintaining a balance and ensuring that leadership transitions feel earned by the story, rather than appearing to follow a formula, would result in a more cohesive and satisfying narrative.

These are just my thoughts on how the story could be more balanced in its character arcs and leadership transitions.

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However Lufsela has a moe profound bond with stormrooks as a species, not just her own the way Baelgrim had.She literally brought forth a whole troop of stormrooks.

She also has considerably longer before her charge runs down compared to the other candidates and is more vital. She actually is the best choice. There are still plenty of guys in charge of things despite going through changes, I won’t name examples bucause it might spoil things for people.

Alleria did not “take over the story”. It’s ALWAYS been about her in this saga. She is the key to a lock that no one has found yet, it’s why Xal’atoth keeps doing mind games with her.

In this saga, Khadgar was never anythig more than a supporting character, and he died in heroic mage tradition of Antoinidas. And it isn’t totally sure that he’s really dead, although highly probable.

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every male is systematically being replaced with lesser written female characters and we are supposed to care i guess. after completing the story so far it feels like a teenage novelist’s work. thrall is one of the strongest characters on azeroth and is reduced to the token green dude. anduin was stronger wielding the light than his predecessors, and he is just the token broken boy. everyone else is a female lead. Hell khadgar was the guardian. guess now we gotta select Aegwynn 2.0.

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It is odd, hope this doesn’t affect Anduin. :robot::sweat_drops:

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While Lufsela’s inclusion in the role of Stormward may have been intended to inject a sense of mysticism into the story, her connection to the Stormrooks feels too convenient, relying heavily on vague spiritual ties rather than a developed relationship with the creatures themselves. Olbarig, on the other hand, is written as someone who truly understands and respects the Stormrooks. His interest is rooted in study and dedication, culminating in a heartfelt request to be the rider Balegrim’s former rook. This careful build-up gives Olbarig a stronger narrative foundation that resonates more deeply with the themes of freedom and choice within the Earthen Allied races’ story.

With Lufsela’s, it feels like her connection to the Stormrooks is imposed by external forces rather than arising from her own journey. This undermines the central theme of self-determination that the expansion seems to advocate. Olbarig, by contrast, embodies the very essence of the freedom to choose, making him a more fitting choice for the role of Stormward.

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It’s deliberate. On that note, I also suspect the troll-like Haronir will go that route too.

In fact, I’m calling it now; the Haronir will have a male leader who either turns out to be a villain, gets corrupted or proven wrong by Orweyna - the female Haronir who rescues us when entering Azj-kahet - or all the above. Then he’ll either die or step down and Orweyna will replace him as boss.

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I think her only importance is for Xal’atath to use her to spring the big reveal: That L’ura is not of the Void at all.

Note that the Elementals used by Xal’atath during Beledar’s Night phase(which switches to Day the second Alleria yells out “Enough of your illusions Xal’atath!” suggesting the Beledar is Xal’atath) not only resemble Purple Death Elementals but use Death Bolts, Death Nova and Death Rain.

Xal’atath claimed Necromantic Magic from Galakrond which would only be necessary if she needed to pose as someone with Green Necromantic Magics like say the Primus.

She claimed Dalaran’s Arcane Magics which would only be necessary if she needed to impersonate someone with powerful Arcane Magics like say Azshara.

Where did the Arathi come from? Not an alternate Timeline but the Afterlife itself! Avalon is King Arthur’s Afterlife remember? It’s also the Feyweald which brings suspicion that Xal’atath is not just a being of Death but the original Fairy Queen of Summer and Winter(the Winter Queen is the only Eternal One who doesn’t treat the rest like Family).

Xal’atath calls the Naaru beloved brethren who wandered from the True Path. The Naaru with the exception of Xe’ra, L’ura and K’ara being infused with Light and Shadow would be considered those who wandered from the The Path set forth by Arbiter Zovaal.

What purpose does Ansurek serve? Dangling a large meaty piece of Void in the form of an Old God Tentacle in front of Alleria to attempt to absorb to use against Xal’atath only to find that she can’t and discover at that moment that L’ura was not Void Corrupted but a being of Death.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Denathrius joins the scene and opens a Portal to Avaloren directly beneath the Old God Tentacle right after he makes a monologue(while holding a weakened Alleria by the throat) about how Xal’atath will pose as Azshara and how it will be by her will that all will be washed away. The only power to emerge from this torrent of change is Death. Death and those who aided in it’s victory.

Alleria’s sole purpose as far as Xal’atath is concerned is to serve as a verifiable source to prove her true nature to the World right before she goes into her End Game: Send the Naga to secure the World Soul.

Backup Plan: Sic the Arathi Afterlife in Avaloren upon the Winter Queen’s Realm of Ardenweald(passed off as The Void) on the other side of Avaloren while sending her own armies surrounding the base of the Plataeu in the Black Forest to invade Quel’Thalas to get them out of the way of the Arathi disposing of her rival.

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Are we really out here complaining that there are more female leaders

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I am not sure there is a “pattern”, so much as biases are pairing with the fact our brains are hardwired to find patterns. We are pattern matching machines, beyond anything else—That’s why we see shapes in the clouds and get mad when dice roll the same number multiple times in a row.

Lufsela seems the one most egregious to people right now, so talking on it: She is a shaman, and is the first Earthen to be able to call upon the Stormrooks without binding them, which are in fact sapient beings and not just animals to tame—It would be beyond hypocritical for the Earthen to have decreed themselves unbound from the Titans and then keep enslaving Stormrooks. It is also worthwhile to note she is extremely humble in the whole situation, and expresses doubt she can ever measure up to Baelgrim.

It is also worthwhile to note she has opted to have two Stormguards: One is Olbarig, the other is Vokmar. Notably, both served under Baelgrim and have very different outlooks. Lufsela recognizes Olbarig is actually best suited to being down in the trenches as it were, training the next generation rather than sitting on a purple chair in Dornagol and talking policy with Merrix. Vokmar is true old guard, and represents that outlook. Lufsela is not just barging in and decreeing the old (patriarchal) ways are dead. She is seeing what works, what doesn’t, and applying people’s strengths where they are best suited.

so yeah, that’s my five coppers on that.

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Did this thread get moved from GD or what….

I mean - yes, Warcraft is a fictional series with a design.

I feel a bit of sadness that some folks are unaware - like, there are people so unaware of their surroundings they don’t know it is a video game?

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Nah if it was from GD it would have a lot more posts

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I think it’s telling that very few posts on this topic bring up that Dagran is being built up to replace Moira.

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Well that has been a thing since Cata.

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Warcraft always had strong female character I don’t know why we now make a fuss about it.

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That is a good point.

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No, no, you don’t understand, lightning is somehow stronger if you call it down while on the ground than if you call it down while in the air.

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Probably because Dagran has done less to demonstrate himself replacing Moira (and the rest of the Council of Three Hammers, but I guess people forget about the other two as much as they do Moira in this instance), than Moira has to demonstrate SHE is the one replacing Magni. I mean, she’s the one who ends up with Magni’s hammer, which in Thor-like tradition, chooses it’s wielder.

Moira and Magni have a literal passing of the baton.

By comparison, what has Dagran Jr. done to demonstrate he’s replacing anyone? As far as dwarves go he’s so unique from all other dwarves: he doesn’t feel as if he’s replacing anything or anyone. He’s bringing something rather new to the table. Even Brann, who shares in academic interests, isn’t quite as clever or intelligent as Dagran Jr. is.

As far as replacing male characters with female characters go, it kind of makes sense? The planet’s been at various states of war for a very long time now. Societies have been destroyed, cultures faced upheaval, etc… Small wonder among the survivors are more women forced to step up into roles traditionally or formerly held by men. Even when a male character is on hand whom could take up the cup, the female character tends to be more qualified. Why wouldn’t the best people suited to the job end up in the role?

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There is a good chance that when Dagran comes of age, he declines because he wants to be an adventurer like his Uncle Brann - and Moira becomes Queen (or Queen Regent) with the OK of Muradin and Falstaad, since she has become a bit more heroic over the years.

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All but one of the candidates for leadership seem well-suited for the role. Unfortunately, Lufsela is the exception. She was chosen based on her mystical connection to the rooks, not because of her leadership skills. This raises concerns, especially when compared to someone like Olbarig.

Olbarig’s background as a stormrider is rich with experience. Even after losing his rook and going through a period of doubt. He continued to learn about stormrooks, gaining invaluable knowledge that he even shared with Lufsela, offering her guidance about the Isle and how to resummon the stormrooks. Yet, despite his dedication and wisdom, he was passed over.

The Stormward is the leader of the Stormriders. This position demands someone who will stand shoulder-to-shoulder with their people in battle like Balegrim did. Lufsela, however, sends the player into the fight against the Colossus on her rook, while she remains behind. In contrast, Olbarig, after bonding with Baelgrim’s rook, joins us in the fray, proving his commitment to the defense of the Isle.

Lufsela’s mystical connection alone isn’t enough to justify her leadership.
True leaders are forged through experience, resilience, and action. Olbarig embodies these qualities, making him the more fitting choice to lead the Isle’s defense forces.

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Those who lead from the front often leave their people needing new leadership.

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