But no, even those at lower than +10, even those low population realms who can only get enough players to do low keys, like Garrosh according to Realmpop there are only like 90K players there.
Random I look at the worst +3 there assuming it is worst due to either players being bad or gear not being enough to push and I see an average iLVL of 357 for that group in a dungeon that offers a reward of 345. An average of 12 iLVL higher than what they can get out of the place.
A random ToS +6, reward of 355, iLVL for whatever group I just looked at of 364, 9 higher than what is being offered. It is the same in every run I look at.
It may not be the best way to gear up, the fact remains it IS a way to gear up and is being completed by players who have a group higher than the reward is quite bad.
I am sorry, but you saying you wish you had a solution to a problem that you guys have created is absolutely absurd. It’s almost like literally no one even plays enhance at Blizzard. You gave us “buffs” in 8.1 but I am sure you have no idea that they did nothing to help us, which wouldn’t surprise me. You guys are so out of touch with everything it’s disgusting.
When are you going to admit that you messed enhance up and make it right? Not all will be forgiven if you fix us now, but we’ll be at least a lot happier. The spec is without a doubt the worst it’s ever been. Mechanics wise and DPS wise. Stop saying you wish you had a solution when hundreds of posts were given to you during beta.
You could even join the shaman discord and talk to us there, we’ll be more than willing to talk to about what we think should be done because you clearly have no intention or idea on where or how to start.
Frankly much of the reason for the higher ilvl requirements in pug myth+ is because of horrible players. Much of the time someone over geared for the content can get away with missing some of the mechanics an still not hurt the group. The fact is that there is so many horrible, horrible players trying to pug content they think they can steamroll that the ones who actually want to complete it set the bar higher than it needs to be for a competent player. It puts the competent player at disadvantage for that particular type of content, definitely. But it is also directly caused by giving out high end gear like candy, that the play base did not earn. You cannot have one, without the other. This is why this 50% crap would absolutely destroy the game. It would make players eligible gear wise for content that they simply are not ready for content wise. Handing out gear the way its being done right now is also what gave birth to raider. io and all the other addons/sites that monitor how a player does overall…which can easily be argued makes it harder for willing players to learn. Now imagine if things were given out even earlier in a season, imagine the restrictions then. The 50% things suggested should never be implemented. The day it is I cancel subs.
Well at this point that everyone has a lot of gear thats true, M+ content is designed to be challenging, which means that for the majority of players they will need to over gear the content, however a coordinated group of good players can complete dungeons that reward higher item level than what they have.
Ofc at this point all players have very high item level, most “good” and dedicated players will have 380+ at this point and you don’t see them in low keys. If you look at data from the first few weeks then things are different, people were doing +10s at 355 item level.
For example some guildies and I pushed a +9 to a +10 and then did the +10 freehold which we almost finished in time despite being our first time seeing infested, that was the 1st or 2nd week of M+ and we had about 355 item level, a Prot Warrior tank (before any buffs), and no Rogue, we didn’t even know the skips and most common route to optimize Lust at that point. We are decently good players and had good communication that’s all it takes.
No, they earned the right to work towards that as a goal. But quite frankly if thats the way it goes the blackballing will progress. I already forsee a site much like io where you can look up a name to see if theyve horribly wiped a group comin. All you would be doing is making it a certainty.
ultimately, there will always be content people can’t or won’t complete.
the problem comes when they are designing a game for 1% of the wow population… like naxx in vanilla. at that point they are simply making content for their friends because they can.
fortunately, blizz realized what a waste of everyone’s time this design paradigm was and did an about face… so now we have lfr, which at least lets everyone see the story.
like it or not, you are not entitled to finish every raid on every difficulty level. you either rise to the challenge or don’t. what you accomplish in game is really up to you… like it or not.
No. They earned the opportunity to do the content with $15 a month. If you don’t have the skill to do the content there is other content you can do.
You operate under the assumption that Blizzard wants everyone to do all the content. If this was the case they wouldn’t have the tier list of raids and dungeons they currently do. Mythic raids are for those 1%-10%ers with heroic being 10-30%ers curving normal for 30-70%ers and lfr being there for anyone who wants to do it.
Also lets not pretend that dozens of other ideas you ask for never get addressed as well such as the Mage Tower.
Lets take your character for example Rastlin. You have done LFR, but nothing else on that character. You have the Ilvl to join a mythic uldir, but I wouldnt accept your app as a raid leader because you havent put the time in to work up (at least reasonably) normal and heroic. Your 15$ has earned you the chance to work up through the difficulties like everyone else and the only thing stopping you is you. Nothing about your character, as the armory projects, give you any right to be in a mythic raid. I dont much care for myth+ so I stay out of them but I would be willing the exact same applies.
You wanna see the dreaded sub drop people speculate on? Drop the difficulty of established content people are working towards just so people who don’t want to work towards a goal can join in too. See how quickly the sub numbers drop…itll be way more than the 8m or so they reported last quarter.
Perception is reality. If some blizzard sim shows enhance is the best melee for mythic+ but Warcraft logs still have them at the bottom and player feedback is that they suck, the player experience of that class isnt going to be good.
I get what you mean with the bad players and needing to over gear for the place, but there is still the other side some of you need to understand. i ran a KR11 last night as tank, god damn DBM would not shut up on a specific mob… INTERRUPT INTERRUPT INTERRUPT!
I have one interrupt every 11 seconds, we had a warrior, mage, shaman and demon hunter, even when players would interrupt and you would see the chat when someone interrupted, still non stop asking to interrupt, still hitting like a truck.
This is just the latest example I have come across of a dungeon that would have been impossible had it not been for the interrupts, if I went in with anything less with the team we had we may not have been able to finish, or at least would have needed to brute force our way through by killing the smaller mobs and hoping the damage from that one mob alone is not enough to kill me.
I do agree though that thanks to giving out too much gear means players seemingly should be able to do runs that they cannot do, runs that they are not ready for, but I do runs mostly with my guild and these guys are all decently ranked players with some of the best healers, tanks and DPS in the world according to their ranks, and unless we take all of the best ones for keys at or over 10 we struggle.
Thankfully we are a guild and we push through, but the problem still stands with Blizzard giving us content in every aspect that sometimes cannot be completed as designed unless you take specific classes or do specific things, like the 2 healers, 2 tanks or 5 interrupts.
Myth+ has its issues right now, even blizz admits that. Especially on some weeks. But that still isnt a reason to blanketly dumb down content across the board. Tweak what is actually an issue and not mass nerf stuff. Having the entire group interupt is part of the mechanic, though I have experienced myself the problems your talking about. What the 50% rule would effectively do is drop the diffculty of that 11 to a 4-7 range. That isnt what is needed at all, I am not saying certain things dont need attention. Far from is, scaling in expeditions is rediculous right now. But massively dumbing down content because “casual” players dont want to dedicate time to learning it isnt the answer.
The problem then becomes, why bring a shaman when you can have a mage? Aside from interrupts (which shams have the leg up) mages have hexes and slows without CD, lust, a version of purge, and AI which flat out gives +10% magic damage and healing for the group.
I played an ele shaman for 8.0 and really felt “why am I even here?” when looking at what mages were bringing to the table.
Did anyone even read what he wrote? He’s wondering why enhance shaman aoe is weak, not why shamans in general are weak. Even the blue post had nothing that even pertained to his question.
Look, I read the link you provided, but you only replied about a portion of what the original post was about.
But I do agree with the fact that it is good to have content that you complete, however, with the caveat of you should have the opportunity to complete it eventually.
I’ll use the Mage Tower as an example since it’s the most recent iteration of content never coming back, much like OG Naxx.
IF a new player comes in and sees someone’s awesome mog from a previous expansion and realizes that they’re never going to have the opportunity to gain it; it’ll be disheartening. It’s like me never having a shot at Atiesh on my mage.
Sure, there are those who will say it ruins the effort put in by those who got it originally, but I call bollocks on that.
Nothing erases the effort a person put into something. That would be like me complaining if they increased the drop rate on the Horseman’s Reins, even though I got it 5 years ago. I put in that effort because I wanted it, and I would be upset if they removed it and no one else could enjoy it.
Same thing with mogs, or other items not in game anymore that have been deprecated for no discernable reason.
Dunno if it’s already been mentioned and I don’t feel like going over 150 posts to see if it has but my personal feeling as to why shaman have this persistent attitude that they are underpowered is because for the longest time we were and have a loooong history of never being top shelf.
There have been times were shaman have shone but they are few and far between and never last more than a tier.
Over the years shaman have consistently had issues of having to receive mid tier band aid buffs and changes.
Not saying that other classes haven’t been in the same boat but shaman being underpowered or just generally weak, when compared to other classes, have become something of a meme.
A big thing quite frankly has been for the last 3 xpacs Ele in particular have had a rough time in the opening tier. This is despite a usual laundry list of issues that get reported in Alpha and Beta and then are ignored or not taken seriously. And then Ele gets its customary tuning hotfix.
The community seems to, in general, have a predispositioned opinion of shaman being lack luster and this affects party and raid leaders in including them.
Honestly show me a world first kill that has ever had an Elemental shaman. I may be wrong but I can’t think of one.
I realize that those kills are very niche but when they are something that the community at large does notice and when they don’t see a particular spec ever getting included this leads to a general perception that that spec is not good. Regardless of wether it’s true or not.
I’ve often heard “why bring a shaman when x or y class can do the same thing but better or easier”
If this is something that Blizzard truly does want to fix then they need to realize that in order to change the general perception of shaman after this long the class needs to be slightly overpowered imo for at least an entire expansion in order to change the general feelings about them.
Note I said slightly. I do not mean give shaman the world. They just need to stand out and be a clear choice in certain situations and not have that speciality watered down by another class.
Just my 2 cents. Changing long standing perceptions is no easy task and I don’t envy the devs but I do appreciate they at least recognize the issue.
Ythisens there is a fairly easy fix for this Buff the class.
As somebody who mains a hunter and doesn’t really care which class is top dog, i think Shamans have suffered enough, just boost everything 5-10%, give enchance cleave on afew skills and leave them ahead of the pack until the next expansion when you promise to rework the class.
I think that’d HELP, it certainly isn’t a long term fix but lets be honest you don’t have a long term fix because the balance team wants to fiddle with stuff every single expansion which means we’ll never be finished, there will never be a finishing point.
So the real issue it about not making certain classes suffer for too long.
a+ post. an idea i’ve seen thrown around as a solution to the melee problem in m+ is just halve the cooldown of invis pots. this would remove the necessity of having a rogue without diminishing rogues’ strength.