So Explain how Mages get SpellSteal with Kleptomania?

Classes Death Knight
1

So SpellSteal with Kleptomania takes ALL positive buffs and leaves all harmful buffs from the target. The mage gets all these buffs for up to 2 min if they last longer than 2 min.

Now what I want to know is WHY this works on AMS for DK’s it’s ANTIMAGIC and that is a MAGIC Spell so it shouldn’t work on the DK and they should get NOTHING if they have AMS up…but no the mage takes AMS from the DK…

Inversely DK’s get the spell called Dark Simulacrum which only works on specific spells and many spells cast do nothing. Anyone can play the system and screw the DK by giving them something that either doesn’t trigger the ability or gives them something that does nothing… Also the cooldown on this ability is 20 seconds while SpellSteal is 4 seconds? and the Mana% to cast it is no issue they can cast it like 3 times in a row and still have 50%+ mana.

So I ask why can Dark Simulcrum be upgraded to be much more effect and basically if it doesn’t get a spell from the target it Takes all the Beneficial Buffs for 2 min just like the Mages SpellSteal….if it catches a mana using beneficial spell say like Bubble, a Heal, Blessing of Freedom etc sure it triggers that and you get that spell. However it should give you the spell for 2 min and is usable multiple times within the 2 min period unless the spell has a higher cooldown normally say like Bubble?

However, I do find it rather painful and like blizzard are just catering to the Greater Pyro failures that are all one trick ponies once they SpellSteal your AMS that is… It should NOT be taken IT’s ANTI MAGIC common blizzard stop screwing DK’s

2 Likes
2

everything dk related is half butt implemented not real thought n just pure lazyness

3

Wait wait wait…

WAAAAAAAIIIIIiiiiit…

So spellsteal is taking ams? Or only spellsteal when talented into kleptomania?

Neither should work, but if one and not the other works it could be an issue with how the spell is flagged. For example baseline spellsteal could be flagged as harmful, but klepto not.

I have a mage i can test this with later and report it. I doubt it was intentional or it would be more widely known in the arena community.

1 Like
4

It is only when they have Kleptomania as it takes ALL Buffs on the target. Untalented it doesn’t work. I believe with Kleptomania and I haven’t tested this but it might take Paladin’s bubble or a Hunters Turtle buff if used aggressively.

The reason I say this is that there is so many mages on my shard and in PvP I am having my AMS peeled so many times and the wonderspell spellsteal sound when a mage is in range of me. I will be honest I am not sure how many mages are actively aware of this but it’s definitely an issue on my shard

5

:rofl: :joy: :joy: :rofl:

a DK crying about mages is absolutely hilarious… a frost DK no less!!!

I play DK and Mage in the Duelist range for arenas/pvp…

DK’s are not shortchanged in any way when it comes to fighting mages…

To me, this sounds 1000% like a l2p issue.

2 Likes
6

absolutely incorrect.

Kleptomania and Spellsteal do NOT take Bubble/Sac/AotT/ etc or anything similar.

7

I actually had to do some testing recently on this and you’re right it doesn’t take AMS. However, I will say I know why AMS doesn’t last two seconds in BG’s this is not Arena just to be clear.

It’s something I have said several times Greater Pyro needs to do actual damage not % values of Maximum health of Target. Look I am happy for it to be like an execute is for Warriors etc when a player is under X% it has a chance to insta kill them fine. But it should not be doing 30% of a Players Maximum health as this right now if we consider that players have from 350K - 700K live depending on class and spec. That one spell is doing 105K - 210K and with the CC and control mages have it’s far too easy for them to get one easily but can be 2 or even 3 of these of with ease.
You only need to look at Fire Mage Damage in PvP BG’s to see how obscene the damage this one spell is as it’s counting prior to corruption items 60% of their damage overall from one spell in BG’s.

Anyway as I said AMS doesn’t get removed but I know now it’s the constant barrage of Greater Pyroblasts that your AMS is down as fast as the DK puts it up

anyway I digressed

2 Likes
8

First and foremost, I want to tell you I agree with you that Greater Pyroblast needs to be reworked. It needs to have a cooldown attached to it, be 35% of current HP (meaning if the target is at 50% HP it will only do 35% of the current 50%, so in-turn a smaller % than if the target was at 100% HP), OR, and this would take a LOT of rework for the class, be charged up somehow with Hot Streak accumulation (say instead of spending Hot Streaks on instant Pyroblasts, collect 4-5 of them and it becomes a Greater Pyroblast).

Secondly, and probably most importantly, the game is not and never has been balanced around Battleground PvP. Since rated PvP came out in the form of Arena combat, the game has had all of it’s PvP balance come from that section of the gameplay. Furthermore, I would like to state my advocacy for this to continue in such a way. The reason the game cannot have PvP balance based on Battlegrounds is because Battlegrounds are 10v10 and far more infinite combinations can be created vs. arena which was at most 5v5, and more recently 3v3 (think 5s got scrapped in WoD?)… DRs have to be considered when balancing toolkits for classes, including damage. To add to that, Greater Pyroblast has a 4 second cast time. Aside from BGs and then Double Fire Mage comps (which get destroyed in arena by 99.9% of players with skill), you will not see a mage spamming Greater Pyroblast. It just doesn’t happen. Until Blaster Master azerite traits became the meta no one of note complained about Greater Pyroblast. When Greater Pyroblast was created in Legion not only did no one play it, but it was laughed at when people saw someone play it. The reason Greater Pyroblast is so good right now is not because of the 35% HP damage modifier. It’s good because it baits kicks, and then when paired with the azerite trait Blaster Master it can be used to entirely 1 shot somebody with Combustion. Before the meta when Blaster Master became the hot thing to do (pun intended) no one played Greater Pyroblast. It was too gimmicky and was a waste of 4 seconds where other GCD’s could be used. I would suspect that is why Blizzard isn’t removing it from the game. Also because most of the R1 players for rated PvP that play the game also said there is nothing wrong with it in it’s current form.

1 Like
9

The answer is that a dev mains mage.

3 Likes
10

Informative post I understand the balancing of the game but my concern is more around the CC control mechanisms that a Mage has combined with this and you have a very Overpowered Ability Combination.

I say this because I do remember days where mages cried tiers and spammed the forums about how it was unfair to them that Deathknights couldn’t be Snared or technically CC and would carve them up without them being about to even respond or get a counter in. They got interrupted, stunned, slowed, buffs removed etc all from the once class DeathKnights and it was awash in here with moaning posts.

What we have now is the opposite in a round about way as pretty much all of the DeathKnight toolkits they had to counter magic users has been taken away, stunted, nerfed, or given to other classes instead leaving the deathknight with abilities for example in UH that time to wind up and a lot of finesse to even pull off the same can’t be said for a Fire Mage.

Honestly all I see when I have a Mage targeted is Pyro, Pyro, Pyro, Pyro someone close Blink, Breath, Scorch, Scorch, 1 Shot anyone Pyro with Combustion… because you are either stunned, dazed, snared or rooted and can’t ever get a decent amount of time in melee. Other classes have great toolkits to keep them in melee (Rogue, Paladin, Warrior) but the DK relies on AMS, luck and Death Grip hoping you don’t have blink up which is unlikely now in game cause it’s pretty much up as fast as the melee have their interrupts back.

As I said I think it should do Damage Calculated on Spell Power, Int and Mastery so it scales with gear accordingly. However it based on the Mages stats not the target which is better mechanically anyway. Finally it has a 30% chance to instantly kill any player hit who is below 20% Health for example and if the mage gets the execute it triggers a 20 second cooldown on Greater Pyroblast but instead gives you a lessor Pyroblast which is 70% less damage and is only active during the cooldown or something.

I would then say give DK’s back their original Death’s Advance, AMS and AMZ so they have the talents to deal with casters. Finally it should be made so that AMZ is actually a Zone of Silence of anyone who is not an Ally of the DK. This allows for a Dead Zone for a DK to pull a caster in and make it very hard to blink out or get away as quickly?

1 Like
11

On a minorly tangential note, when WotLK was current content someone I know who mained a mage also owned a parrot. By the end of the expansion the parrot had learned to say, “F-BOMB-ING DEATH KNIGHTS.”

Suffice to say in that expansion the interactions between DKs and mages were somewhat lopsided.

1 Like
12

i cant read through all this cus its a bunch of walls of text but if no one has said it yet: none of this is true

spellsteal does not and has never been able to steal AMS. klepto does not change this. this is all wrong and dks toolkit does great against mages.

1 Like
13

that’s hilarious coming from a literal Hero class.

14

The worst tank of the expansion.

Yes.

15

Not really legit to say this a a mage in context of pvp. Your other points are valid, and to add to them if the dk in question isn’t using the rpoper talents or missusing cds its on the Dk.

You mentioned several things you don’t like about mage, my issue with dk is that the dps specs were winnowed down to damage bots. The endles pruning covers this up and the dev team baked all the utility into brainless abilities.

3 Likes
16

Yea, that’s because melees have more uptime on their targets due to mobility than any time previous in history which makes them in-turn do much more damage. Mages have the toolkit they do for a reason. Again, as I explained previously, the game is balanced around PvE first and then PvP by way of arena. Frost DK has several tools for beating a mage or any caster for that matter.

Deathknights still destroy casters if they use their abilities correctly. Especially Frost in it’s current iteration. Choice between Asphyxiate and Blinding Sleet, along with Wraith Walk for mobility and Death Pact for 1v1 scenarios in regular talents then Anti-Magic Shell, Icebound Fortitude (which can be talented into a 1 minute stronger wall known as Lichborne in which you can get out of stuns, fears, and still get same healing mechanic as IBF), Death Strike (if done properly will completely negate burst) coupled with Transfusion which makes your Death Strikes cost much less RP, Chains Of Ice, and Death Grip, and Death’s Advance as defaults. In your PvP talents you have Dead of Winter to stun casters when you connect with them and start your burst ( but be careful cuz it will DR your Asphyxiate if you choose to play that ), Necrotic Aura if talented keeps your damage rolling at a higher percentage even if you can’t hit them since its a 12yd range, Deathchill which applies Chains Of Ice as soon as you Death Grip the caster in or use your Remorseless Winter, Delirium which is proc’d off of your Howling Blast and reduces CDR for players movement enhancing abilities like Shimmer for example and is only made worse for casters with the next talent, Heartstop Aura a cool 20% CDR added to ALL abilities, Anti-Magic Zone and don’t believe I need to explain how strong this one is, and last but certainly not least Dark Simulacrum which is very strong as a spell steal mechanic of your own. Dark Simulacrum is much harder for the layman to use though on a Death Knight. That spell has a much higher skill cap than the other spells in a DK’s spellbook, but that said it can absolutely win you a game.

Thank you Big Dog Flark! You’re the f*ckin’ man… I was lowkey hoping you’d drop in and help me correct this mess…

For any of you who want to contest this and complain that DK doesn’t have a way to deal with casters please talk to Flark… He will set you straight as he’s literally one of the BEST DKs in NA… maybe even the world.

17

Mages have always had strong damage and strong CC. Never denied that… DK’s on the other hand at several points in history have been one of the worst offenders, at one point to the same tune as DH’s…

if you’re serious about fixing DK then just add back in death, unholy, and frost runes. Add a couple spells here and there back in to account for each spec and watch as the people who have no skill at this game can no longer play DK since it doesn’t have training wheels at that point. Same thing with Fire.

18

Eh, this system was just as training wheels as the current one. Even more so now that I think about it because old rune tap allowed you to use Necrotic/Scourge strike off global. Point being, pretend time gating damage isn’t ‘skillful’ it’s just an artificial delay.

Runes aren’t as much the issue, as things like Dark sim being reduced in effectiveness. Deeper abilities with more synergy and more potential to mess up are what’s needed for DK. Things like Death runes and Rune tap took away from that/prevented that. I want the old rune system from Wrath in the worst way but the devs won’t do it for some odd reason. Probably to hand hold bad players, which was why it was changed in the first place.

Last point here, Necrotic strike management. In cata/mop nstrike could just be stacked with no conditions. Believe it or not it was actually way easier to stack necro’s in those expansions, because it wasn’t dependent on Festering wounds.

Ok, but since Arena inception your class is in the top 3 for overall power. They’ve also been on par with DK at it’s most overpowered at several points, including now. Not a spec, the class. So you’ll understand that while I acknowledge that DK can deal with mage, to try and say that DK is a ‘worse offender’ is a bit laughable. Be more objective, this part of your post literally reads to anyone with arena knowledge that it’s OK for you to be that consistently strong (if not outright overpowered) but not class x. Which is detracting from an otherwise productive conversation.

19

Not laughable at all… DKs have just as many tools as mages and always have, just in different ways.

Disagree… I think you’re just clutching your pearls and upset that your class got called out after a claim was made that DK has no ability to deal with casters when it’s quite literally the most “anti-caster” class in the game aside from Hunters.

The conversation was quite productive until you took my comments out of context. You must be getting tired with all of those mental gymnastics you’re performing.

20

Stealing ams from a mage killing DK? Sounds awesome. Going to change my talents right now.