Am I reading this right?
I was on WoWhead building out a warrior build to see if SMF will be viable and I noticed something with the Hero Talents. Slayer has 3 nodes that require Bladestorm. Am I insane or is forcing required talents and not making them baseline asinine, or at the very least granting it when you choose that HT tree and an extra charge should I decide to talent into it.
I now have to choose between Odins Fury or Bladestorm, as I’m currently building it. Who decided that of the 11 talents about 25% of them require a specific ability you HAVE to talent into? BS needs to be moved over to class tree and champions spear needs to be removed altogether.
The alternative isn’t any better, that requires thunderclap, but at least THAT is a class talent and not a specc.
freedom of choice my left foot.
With the exception of Annihilator, which doesn’t exist anymore in TWW, virtually every Fury Warrior build throughout Dragonflight already took Ravager anyway, so swapping that to Bladestorm for mass AoE or for Slayer is not much of a change.
You can talent double abilities instead, but having both Onslaught and Odyn’s Fury significantly clutters the rotation and is not generally advised. If that’s the way you wanna play though, you do you.
It would be nice if the trees gave free talent allocation, but I’m not sure there’s a great mechanism for that. The real point between them is to choose between themes and playstyles.
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it’s theory crafting right now anyway, the point is BS is required for the full potential of the Hero Specc.
Yes, it is, but as stated the main swap for most players is going to be Ravager → Bladestorm, which is not build breaking. Since Annihilator doesn’t exist anymore, the only other T3 option is using both Onslaught and Odyn’s Fury together, which the rotation doesn’t support too well due to overflowing with GCDs.
Forced talents are not a bad thing when it comes to Hero Talent synergy, since they’re generally the higher damage options to take for that build anyway if you cared about min/maxing.
I hear what you’re saying and acknowledge that it’s correct. I also think that having a Hero Path mandate a capstone talent isn’t good design. I wouldn’t mind seeing Bladestorm/Ravanger get moved up into the middle of the tree, since other class devs have said that the Hero Path requirements should live in that area yeah?
That’s fair, everyone will have their own opinion as to what feels good, though I’m afraid we’re a little far gone at this point to change it.
I don’t recall if they explicitly commented on it, but ultimately the spot is less important than the opportunity cost.
- Fury has it extremely easy, since basically every build already takes Ravager anyway; depending on what it replaced, it would probably be harder to take if it were further up.
- Arms is a bit weird, since taking Bladestorm requires dropping other competitive single target talents - namely Critical Thinking and Juggernaut. The first isn’t too important because Slayer gets a lot of extra Sudden Death procs to help balance out their rage, but the second feels odd for a build focused on casting Execute.
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I think the talent system is a bit weird in general. I’ve been levelling a warrior and like why is rampage a talent? Like is anyone going to try and build a warrior without that? I don’t know maybe it’s not possible to skip but it does seem weird to me.
What is funny is as you level, until you unlock rampage, you can’t even spend rage as fury.
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Remix reminded me of this. DF’s talent overhaul was okay but it had its share of flaws.
Did they take out the rage cost for Slam, Execute, and Whirlwind? Victory Rush costs rage, and Ignore Pain as well (though a talent).
Fury doesn’t have Ignore Pain, Improved Execute removes the rage cost, Whirlwind and Victory Rush don’t have a rage cost (you’re thinking about Impending Victory), and Slam’s rage cost is removed for Fury in TWW.
He is correct in that Fury doesn’t really have a way of spending Rage, and that is a flaw… though strictly speaking, it’s not exactly a problem since you still have buttons to press, it’s just weird.
Also weird is the fact that you spec Arms or Fury at L10, but don’t actually gain access to their signature ability until L11. Realistically, Bloodthirst should be auto-learned at level 10, Raging Blow should take its place as the first talent in the tree, and Rampage should be the second.
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My bad on some of the names. I’m on autopilot when I play a low level warrior, and I level exclusively as Protection.
The leveling experience isn’t just bad for most specs/classes; it’s straight up a net negative to teaching the player. The tanks don’t even learn their AoE kits evenly, and some of them are squishy as hell before their baseline survival passives kick in.
Warrior is fairly egregious, and its only saving grace is access to Devastate off the rip, but Revenge and Thunder Clap come in later than they should. Iirc, BDKs don’t get Death and Decay at the drop, but Brewmaster gets Spinning Crane Kick.
Doesn’t all the blade storms stuff in slayer also apply to ravager?
No, Slayer only works with Bladestorm.
I am liking slayer already because it requires bladestorm, one of my favorite fury warrior abilities.
Would bladestorm work well with mountain thane builds if I was to go that route as fury instead?
If I can use mountain thane with bladestorm then I will try both mountain thane and slayer, otherwise I hope slayer fury builds are always at least viable. Bladestorm ftw.
Yes, it’s still the premier burst AoE ability.
The only builds currently using Ravager are single target Thane, and Colossus in both ST and AoE. In Colossus’ case, this is due to the fact that Ravager sends the same number of Mortal Strikes, while also allowing natural casts at the same time, resulting in more overall Colossal Might stacks for Demolish.
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That is great to hear. Thank you.