“BFA: Inconsequential for the Horde”
- Night Elf poster
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“The Alliance killed no one in BFA.”
- Night Elf poster
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The Zandalari Trolls are the true victims of the Fourth War. Given that we killed a lot of their bigger support.
- Ra’wani Kanae - Prelate of Dazar’alor
- The Conclave of the Chosen - Aspects of Pa’ku, Kimbul, Akunda, and Gonk.
- King Rastakhan - Bwonsamdi shows he had his part in Rastakhan’s death demise. but it was the Alliance who led the killing blow.
Including various angered merchants, dock workers, and casualties in the initial assault. But the only problem the Alliance had is that it played with child gloves on. The Alliance didn’t slay people who were innocent. The damage they did to Zandalar wasn’t murderous but to cripple the naval warfleet they just gained.
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I’m so ethereally tired of NEPs and the weekly swarming of a new batch of alts that are very clearly new alts of the same posters from weeks prior due to speech patterns.
I’m still reeling from that other thread when one revealed there’s apparently a whole discord of NEPs doing this crap, bad mouthing specific Horde players behind the comfort of their discord.
It’s so degen as hell.
Like cool care about your favorite race but it’s getting to be an insane cult at this point. Teldrassil is shaping up to be WoW’s Q-conspiracy nonsense, or the “BUT THE RUSSIANS” crap.
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I’m sorry - could you provide something substantive to describe your objection so that we may actually discuss it?
I think my posts speak for themselves. As do yours. There is nothing to discuss if you actually believe what you posted in that tantrum.
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I think my posts speak for themselves.
I mean, unless you’re simply aiming to project indignation - I’m afraid they don’t. Snippy one-liners give me no insight into your thought process and the information that you used to reach the conclusions that you did.
If that’s the way you prefer it, fine, but I don’t think that’s terribly useful.
I think, and I could be wrong here, the issue he and others have, is you are so quick to dismiss valid lore points that don’t agree with your notion that the Kaldorei have had it the worse.
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This line is hilarious given what you posted earlier. But I’m at work right now so a lengthy response will have to come later.
Worse than who? Could you tell me who I made that comparison to, and can you pick out the line where I made that comparison?
I’m not saying you did. Just when you quickly dismiss other peoples valid lore points, because it doesnt fit the narrative you want to tell, it comes off that way. You might not even realize that’s the impression you’re giving
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Dude you’re taking giving waaaaaayyyyyy to much importance to a some pixels from a crappy narrative.
Get some help
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I’m not really seeing where that dismissal is here. I do feel that lore points should be put in context to overall storytelling - and that when we do that, we can see where and how they fail to explain audience reactions to the work in question. I’m used to people presenting an arcane lore detail as an explanation for why me and frankly, a lot of other Night Elf posters and players, shouldn’t feel the way we do - which is where I put my finger on the overwhelming power of visual media, and try to share the elements that DO explain those reactions.
In this instance, I primarily explained why the metric ton of Druidic content feels “stolen”, and I did this with a metaphor to the Eastern Roman Empire. I also provided a perspective that I didn’t see addressed in this thread: namely that I don’t want to see a Sylvanas loyalist being given the option of play-acting as the savior of the Night Elves.
I don’t see how that is merely dismissing points. Nor do I see how these catty-one liners from evidently pissed-off Horde fans address anything I said. If you want to unpack the analogy and talk about it, fine, I’m happy to do that, but I’m not seeing that here.
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I personally get where you’re coming from. I can go on all day about how my fav race gets royal screwed by blizz. And no one is saying that NE fans shouldn’t be angry, but when people bring up LORE points, they’re bringing them for a reason. In case you forgot, we’re here to discuss the story in its entirety, and that includes lore from the books.
All I ask is don’t be so quick to dismiss lore points you find inconvenient.
I mean to begin with, your summary of the history of the formation of the Apostolic Churches is horribly wrong that I don’t even know where to begin to correct your errors, given you misconstrue facts of linguistic evolution to ratify strange histories, which in turn serve as the allegorical backdrop for your general sense of entitlement.
No point, really.
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I’m not dismissing them, I’m certainly aware of them, but as I’ve stated elsewhere, I do think they need to be put into their proper context.
I agree that we should discuss the story in its entirety, and when I say that, I mean that we need to incorporate the impact of storytelling. A pure text-analysis often omits how audiences receive those narratives. In this particular case - because the text concerning the Night Elves so often conflicts with the presentation - the text alone does a poor job of explaining why many Night Elf fans feel the way they do, and hence obscures the underlying issues.
Hope that helps.
@Baalsamael
I’ll confess that I’m not a church historian, and that I’m pretty sure that no Byzantine subject ever referred to members of the Latin church as “LARPing Barbarians”. I nevertheless feel that the explanation provided - as slanted, flippant, and tongue-in-cheek as it is - conveys how I feel about druidic content in regards to the question of whether I consider it “Night Elven”.
Oh, I agree that blizzard does a poor job of saying one thing and than SHOWING something that completely contradicts what they just said whether it’s in a book or a quest text. I was merely pointing out the impression it gives to others. It’s nothing personal, I hope you don’t take it that way.Like I said, I get where you’re coming from.
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Nah - I don’t take that commentary personally, and I can see where you’re coming from. It kind of sucks when you show up with a counterargument and someone just says “don’t care, doesn’t count” - and I could probably do a better job of clarifying what I mean when I say that obscure lore details don’t really drive how the story is experienced.
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I suppose the problem is the “touchstone”/“gold standard” then.
There are multiple layers to lore and feeling. For me, how a zone should be perceived has to take into consideration all of the following groups:
- The Elite/Competitive PVPers
- The Elite/Competitive PVEers
- The Pseudo Archivists (Lore obsessed sans RP)
- The RPers
- The Casuals
Which of the following groups, if comparing Night Elf centric zones to Ardenweald, and taking into account how the story is being presented via questing, would agree that:
- Ardenweald is Night Elf centric
- Ardenweald is Alliance centric
- Ardenweald is race/faction neutral
Given that absolutely ZERO OF EIGHT questlines in the Leveling Campaign involves Horde Lore at all, the Leveling Campaign cannot be Race/Faction neutral. In fact, we are not directed to the Other Side at all during leveling because they removed Bwonsamdi’s NPC since they removed a Flight Point in northwestern Ardenweald during beta. However FOUR questlines are Ysera-centric, which historically is centered on the Night Elves and this is how the story itself presents it, givne when we go into Ysera’s Dreams the only mortals in it are Tyrande, Malfurion, and Shandris, and TWO questlines are Drust-centric, and the Drust are a villain that is centered on the Alliance.
In the Covenant Campaign, there are TWO (2) OF EIGHT storylines centered on Trolls. There is ONE (1) additional cameo of a Tauren lore character whose role in the story does not center Tauren lore at all, but serves as a narrative tool for the Night Elf Lore Centric storyline.
However there are Two (2) Tyrande-centric storylines, and Two (2) Drust-centric storylines. Tyrande is unquestionably Night Elf centric
That is to say:
- 0% of the Leveling Campaign and 25%* of the Covenant Campaign is Troll, with only one cameo of a Tauren Lore character
- 50% of the Leveling Campaign is Ysera, with repeated Covenant Campaign use of Ysera
- 25% of the Leveling Campaign is Drust, 25% of the Covenant Campaign is Drust
- 0% of the Leveling Campaign is Tyrande, but 25% of the Covenant Campaign is Tyrande-centric, with the aforementioned Tauren character only being relevant because he needs to help Tyrande, which makes that 12.5% of that questline also Tyrande-centered (but not centric)
In no fathomable way could anyone in the five groups mentioned, and at the very least categories 1, 2, and 5, can reasonably argue and perceive that there is not an over-sampling of Alliance-centered narratives in Ardenweald as a whole, and over-sampling of Night-Elf and Night-Elf Adjacent themes (due to shared real-life inspiration) in Ardenweald, and unreasonable under-sampling of Horde themes as a whole (where is the jungle? The plains? The plateaus? The swamps? Where are aquatic Wild Gods whose worlds are destroyed expected to stay?), and that the lack of Bwonsamdi during leveling made absolutely no sense.
The problem is exacerbated with the fact that in the other zones as well, the Horde Lore Heroes are also not centered as Horde or Horde-race in a way comparable to Shandris/Ysera/Tyrande during their Covenant Campaign.
The closest is Revendreth, where Kael’thas has repeated Blood Elf centric quests and narrative development, and whose gossip text changes on if you killed him in the BC dungeon and raid, and if you are a Thalassian Elf (Blood or Void).
Draka? Zero Horde-specific gossip text, let alone Orc-specific gossip text.
Huln at least has the benefit that even if his cameo is narratively centered on getting him to help Tyrande, he still recognizes the Highmountain Tauren player (but not Kalimdor Tauren).
Because if you have to type out an essay in a two thousand post thread in order to justify why Ardenweald totally isn’t Night Elf centric, clearly you’re simply in the wrong.
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Because if you have to type out an essay in a two thousand post thread in order to justify why Ardenweald totally isn’t Night Elf centric, clearly you’re simply in the wrong.
I mean, I tend to churn out essays because discussing Night Elf presentation is often messy and complicated. It lends itself to a lot of differing perspectives, and the people holding them often don’t see where the other person is coming from. (Such as is the case with the presentation versus text discussion earlier)
Regarding your post, I think it does a suitable job of explaining how it appears from an outside perspective that this content, or druidic content in general, is also “Night Elf” content - and I certainly hope that you don’t view me as trying to dismiss what I do view as justifiable frustration among Horde players for having to quest in “Alliance adjacent” content.
I am simply trying to explain why regardless of that, I don’t feel like a lot of this content is “for me” or deals with the issues that I think the Night Elves have as a playable race (Tyrande obviously excepted). I look at some of the Night Fae for example and think “okay, so that is a chibified Night Elf head that someone stuck on a butterfly thing, but why should I care about it? How is it really relevant to me?” … it’s kinda not - and that’s what that post was attempting to explain.
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