She has strong associations with the NEs, and none with the Horde.
Functionally she is supposed to be Neutral, but in practice … well … it wasn’t Hamuul she was dreaming about. She’s the Godmother to Cenarius by Elune; the Caretaker of the Emerald Dream; one of 3 Aspects that blessed the World Trees, and one of 2 that Blessed Both. Beyond that, specifically, the Kaldorei Druids (including Malf) are bound to her through the dream, and its where they are expected to spend centuries of their lives due to that relationship.
So … yeah … Ysera has absurd NE associations and relationships. You are being really disengenous to say otherwise. I am sorry. Same goes for you saying that a Large Fey Wild-like Forest in perpetual twilight also doesn’t have strong associations with that race. In fact, that sort of natural setting and imagery is almost exclusively associated to that specific PC race.
She is neutral both functionally and in practice, she’s never attacked the horde or protected the night elves from the horde. She’s only worked with both the horde and the night elves. She doesn’t represent the night elves even if she has history with them. Ysera story does not = night elf story.
Yeah, she has a relationship with the night elves, that doesn’t mean she is a night elf character or that she represents them. She is entirely neutral, pretending she isn’t is the disingenuous part.
The modern alliance was created from an idealization of the destroyed prior alliance, spearheaded by the Wryn family. The Alliance of Lordaeron is as related to the modern alliance as the ancient roman empire was to the holy roman empire. They share a name, that is all.
The Alliance of Lordaeron was a mutual defense pact between the seven human kingdoms, the high elves, and the dwarves. It completely collapsed in the events of WC3. Most its core members are now either destroyed (basically every human kingdom), part of the horde (quel’thalas), or neutral (dalaran). Until recently Gilneas was a shut in (and is now destroyed), and Kul Tiras is a SUPER new introduction into the modern alliance as they were hostile-neutral until BFA.
I mean, she was dead by the WoT. And her Godson did attack the Horde on behalf of the NEs the first time they met. She and her flight also have come to the rescue of the Kaldorei several key times throughout their history. And not just the WoTA, but also with the formation of Nord and the blessing of Teld. No other PC race or playerbase is really going to mourn her death in Legion too much, or enjoy her partial resurrections in Shadowlands. And considering her apparent first goal in Ardenweald is to save Tyrande from the Night Warrior…
So like … she’s neutral … but in the same way Bolvar and Kadghar kind of are. In that they serve a greater purpose, but every single one of their close relationships are amongst members of the Alliance? And none amongst the other faction? And even if its not direct NE content … it does have NE themes and certainly NE imagery within Ardenweald.
Post Second War, several nations of the Alliance left. Several more were destroyed in the Third War. The remained did just that, remained. Hence why it is a continuation. At no point did they leave their alliance (Alliance). Hence the same. There was strange legal or court dissolution then reforming of the Alliance with the same members plus new ones. New ones were just added as needed, namely the Night Elves after the Third War.
Namely those who remained throughout were Stormwind, Ironforge, and the Gnomes. As you note, Gilneas, Arathor, and Kul Tiras left to rejoin later.
You are missing the point. If you really step back and objectively look at it, Ardenweald doesn’t look like a night elf forest any more than the undead aesthetic in Maldraxxus looks like the Forsaken. If you call Ardenweald a night elf aesthetic you have to call Maldraxxus a Forsaken aesthetic. (Again, for reference I don’t think either is true.)
I have actually said several times that people will make connections based on their own take. Humans look for patterns, it is what we do really well. So, you are not wrong to make connections. I just stress it is important to know when it is you making the connection. If you keep that in mind, the connections can deepen the story for you and make it more ‘real’ while not making you feel maligned by something you brought to the table.
So, sure you are right in seeing it as night elf in your mind so long as you don’t assume that was Blizzard’s intent.
There have been more than that. Maybe not you. But certainly others in this thread and others.
Also, there are troll stories. You just have to play further into the campaign.
Maybe not you, but there have absolutely been claims that it is a ‘Night Elf zone.’
Maybe I wasn’t clear in the way I applied the point. Maybe I read an intent in your post that you didn’t mean. Part of it was likely because of some of the posts you responded to, lack of tone online and chaos of lots of people ‘speaking.’ But at the root, if you apply the same logic to make Ardenweald Night Elf zone or just vibe, the same has to be applied to others. And that tend to be something that is not being done. For example you will have some of the same people declare Ysara to be a Night Elf character while dismissing the idea of Draka being a Horde character.
Or if you want a more recent example:
Ysara was never in the Alliance. She has had a less prominent history with the Night Elves than Uther did with the people of Lordaeron (you know the same people that are now Forsaken).
I could say all the same about Ysara. Which was the point I was trying to make. She is not either faction.
He is not either faction. But he has more connection and history with the people of Lordaeron, ie the Forsaken.
And Uther has more association with the Forsaken.
And Draka has more association with the Horde.
And Mograine has more association with the Forsaken.
Not so sure about that. We see Ysera’s history. She views Malfurion as her honored pupil and Tyrande as her good friend, or something like that. She blessed them twice. And has hung out with their druids a lot. This history stretches back ten thousand years. Uther has only lived one mortal lifetime.
His connection with Lordaeron is more closely resembling the living people of Lordaeron (in Stormwind) and other living humans (like Stormwindians, Lordaeronians, Arathorians, and Gilneans in general) than the lived experience of Forsaken after all they’ve been through.
Being undead for years, joining the Horde, betraying the Alliance. This has all greatly deepened the divide between Uther and the Forsaken than between him and other current humans.
When you use WotA you have to then include both the nightborne and blood elves as well. So again neutral. It’s insane to argue Ysera is anything BUT neutral, even if she has a relationship with the night elves, she didn’t help the night elves in cata while Garrosh was destroying Ashenvale, she instead chose to celebrate Thrall’s wedding and empower him, she did more for horde characters when she came back in Cata than night elves.
Yup. Still claiming I’m the one missing the point, while missing the points I’ve brought up for why Ardenweald gives me a nelf vibe beyond “just being a forest”.
It’s really feeling intentional at this point, the way you casually dismiss things other than the singular point you’ve decided to fixate on.
The funny thing is, the only way, the legitimately only sigular way, you could ever interpret my repeated statements of “I get a night elf vibe”, “the zone has a night elf feel to me”, or any of the other phrases I’ve used that have all directed my opinions towards being only that and solely that; my opinions.
Legit, the only reason that comes to my mind why you’re now low-key insinuating I’m attributing my opinions to those of Blizzard is if you either A) mistakenly believe that I think I work for Blizzard, which nothing I said should lead to that conclusion, B) you think people here think so highly of my snarky, often goofy takes on things, takes that frequently go unnoticed, might misconstrue my clearly stated opinions as somehow reflecting opinions held by Blizzard, or C) you’re pulling this out of your butt to try and deflect from the realization that you’re only now recognizing I’ve only been referencing my opinion regarding how a zone feels but don’t want to admit the mistake.
I’m hoping B. It would give me a little tiny bit of an ego boost.
And as I’ve repeatedly shown, I am DOWN to talk about the vibes people get from certain zones. I love that crap. You get a Mulgore vibe from Bastion? Yeah, I don’t get it, but dear god tell me why! I want to see what you’re seeing there, so maybe I can see it too. Maybe you get a troll vibe from the Maw for whotheheckknowswhy. Tell, let’s discuss it.
Every time one of y’all brings up the other zones and the feel you get from it, I’m there for it. I’m agreeing, disagreeing, sharing, loving it all right there with you.
And without fail, the responses from y’all are “ok, but Ysera? She’s like nothing at all to the night elves, and implying she is makes the whole thing like Thrall or something. Also you’re dumb and your hunter’s xmog is dumb (ok, maybe not that last bit)”.
So please. Tell someone else that the same treatment “needs to be” applied to other zones. Because I’ve been with you, trying, and you just jump right off that train and back on to Ysera’s neck, stomping away at the poor dragon to squash out any affiliations she has with the night elves.
You only say that because you know once we blelves move in and add some brilliant golds to the prominent reds, Revendreth will be the single most fabulous deadlands in all of the afterlife. And you cannot handle that amount of fabulous.
Droité, you beautiful wishbone-wielding goblin… Best to give up at this point. They won’t read or hear anything you say, will keep belaboring a debunked point that is utterly contrary to the lore, and you deserve better ways to waste your time than this brick wall of an argument.
PS: I have decided that awesome looking staff is actually a wishbone in your avatar. Don’t @me.
The connection between certain aspects and the night elves is admittedly unique. Night elves are not perceived as allies, by the dragons, but really as friends.Even bronze dragons have asked for help and see them as friends
Ysera also sees the night elves as friends and many green dragons take the form of night elves to honour the friendship, but it serves another purpose as well.
As camouflaged night elves, you don’t really notice that they seem like overpowering druids, as there are night elves who are capable of doing something like this even without being a dragon.
So there are also pragmatic reasons and the connection of druidism in night elf culture is very dominant, not only narrative, but also architecture and style. Night elf druidhood is by far the best explained, by far the best developed and internalised druidhood, both on a meta-level for us players and within the lore.
In this respect, Ardenwaeld appears to many Horde players to be an extension of the night elf lore, or at least they regard it as a night elf lore, because Ardenwaeld is a druid zone, through and through.
And what is the first thing that comes to your mind about druids - because of the extended lore? Night elves, of course.
But that doesn´t mean, Ardenwaeld is a Night elf Zone. I mean, we see Nightelfs in other Domains too, Bastion, Revendreth, Maw, Ardenwaeld, i´m pretty sure even in Maldraxxus are a few Night elves.
nightelves have right now not a unique afterlive for them.
I would Ardenweald story is about sacrifice as they made it clear with the Wildseed choosing and the cinematic for Shadowlands.
But it’s the sacrificial of Nature which has Trolls / Night Elfs / Tauren vibe and theme.
I personally was against the whole nature vibe and was teling my wife I am not choosing Night Fae whatsoever for my Demon Hunter but the more I play with the Night Fae and The Hunt (I am loving the solo mechanics of playstyle and that damage. that sweet sweet damage) I feel more connected with the connection of Nature and the cycle of rebirth they provide to the Shadowlands.
Okay, if anyone here is annoyed at how Ardeweald looks, I found it looks significantly better with the Inkly Black Potion. It removes all the eye-burning blue and brings forward the neon greens and pinks and purples, making the zone look much like Cameron’s Avatar.
Funny thing for me is that yeah, I actually do see some forsaken and orc themes in Maldraxxus and I’d consider that a horde-leaning zone, but they’re also themes I’ve felt conditioned to dislike about the horde for several expansions now. So I get to the zone and I’m immediately going “ugh”. The plague zone did make me want to replay Plague Knight’s campaign in Shovel Knight, though. It had that same kind of energy to me.
I actually can kinda see the tauren = Bastion connection you used, though. I know you intended it as an absurdist argument, but if you go beyond WoW into general themes again like I did with elf/fairy, doing that zone actually made me slightly consider going the stereotypical route of rolling a tauren warrior alt with a battle axe. Or maybe a shaman so he can call down the powers of not-Zeus on his enemies. Sadly, I can’t give him a Kyrian toga to complete the set.
Because I don’t believe in humoring a meritless argument when there’s an entire ton of merit to the debate that Ardenweald was made specifically for Night Elf players.
