So Ardenweald story is as much troll as night elf?

[Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord]

@Faranoth-nordrassil

Make up your mind about it.

I did, the first time I said it. You’re reading issues are the problem honey.

@Faranoth-nordrassil

You claim she is not a night elven character but tied to them . I’m asking you where you draw the line with lore characters who have ties to races. I gave you the example of Velen, who is a draenei with ties to blood elves.

Because Velen’s “ties” to the blood elves amount to him trying to rescue a naaru, and when that didn’t work, fulfilling the Naaru’s mission. Once you’ve gotten around to looking into the lore, you’ll understand the difference.

@Faranoth-nordrassil

Your evidence is compounded and still not worthy of the topic- that Ardenweald is a night elven zone. You claim compounding evidence yet you refuse to break it up into the parts that make it the whole because that allows you to stick to your generalist claim that Ardenweald is affiliated to the night elves.

You are right. I look at the amount of evidence, look at what makes those pieces of evidence part of the larger whole, then address the whole as a whole.

That is pretty common debate tactics, sweetie.

@Faranoth-nordrassil

Im not sure what you’re referring to- I addressed everything that was relevant to the topic at hand IMO. Im also typing on my phone so don’t quote a lot.

Must be your reading issue acting up again. Just scroll back up and you’ll see the rest from that post you quoted.

@Faranoth-nordrassil

No.

But still yeah tho.

@Faranoth-nordrassil

It is, even though you love your broad paintbrushes.

I do not paint, I show what is already painted. You however, love your paint stripper so you can say the paint never existed.

@Faranoth-nordrassil

The main story doesn’t involve Ursoc.

I never said it did sweetie.

@Faranoth-nordrassil

Your ad hominems are cheap and deflective. I know I used one too, but in fairness, that was in response to a logical pattern, not an assumption about a player’s lore background.

You used one because you couldn’t make a rational disagreement. Instead, you look at the evidence, try to present it as something it isn’t, deny it exists or claim it’s not even a big deal.

You, sir, are the actual anti-vaccer. You’re so busy denying, you even deflect away from your own wrongdoings by saying “nuh-uh, mine’s not as bad because I don’t think their arguments are right tho!!!” You present nothing to back up your denial, not even proof to the contrary regarding NPC alignments that the game itself acknowledges. Your entire argument can be boiled down thusly;

“I don’t like that Ardenweald is night elf-ish because it’s not the kind of night elf-ish I WANT, so it cannot be at all night elf-ish!! And you’re all a bunch of jerks for saying otherwise!!!”

Besides, calling you uneducated on the lore is legit when you flubbed up each of your lore points thus far.

[Dreadmoore-wyrmrest-accord (Dreadmoore)]

@Faranoth-nordrassil

Make up your mind about it. You’re beating around the bush with vague terms to avoid actually defining what you’re saying.

Ysera is literally tied to the Night Elves. She loved the Night Elves so much that she bound the race to Her Emerald Dream, and also blessed their immortality tree.

[Noctii-sargeras (Noctii)]

This thread is peak horde victim mentality. And they have the gall to make fun of Night Elf posters talking about Teldrassil, lol.

It’s like me saying Maldraxxus is a Horde zone because Draka and Undead. Get over yourselves. Ardenweald doesn’t feel like a Night Elf zone whatsoever unless you consider everything related to nature in WoW to be inherently Night Elven.

[Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord]

@Noctii-sargeras

This thread is peak horde victim mentality.

I love this.

“Dude, this zone is so night elf! WTF, thought Blizz said it’s both nelf and troll? Story Forums said it’s both.”

“OH EM GEE, YER PLAYING VICTIM HERE, WTF?!? ALSO TELDRASSIL!!!”

Y’all crack me up here. Much love tho.

[Noctii-sargeras (Noctii)]

@Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord

Dude, this zone is so night elf

It’s not though. This is the victim mentality. You see things that aren’t there because you WANT to be the victim.

[Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord]

@Noctii-sargeras

It’s not though.

Yeah, but it kinda is tho. Nelf themes, nelf aesthetics, nelf-affiliated NPCs, nelf queen story arch, etc. It is absolutely nelf-adjacent, and the only reason you all, the minority of night elf players who fall into this trap of self-inflicted victimization, deny it is to maintain your own victim complex from the last few expansions, starting in Cataclysm (or earlier and I didn’t notice, but definitely back then).

[Noctii-sargeras (Noctii)]

@Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord

Nelf themes, nelf aesthetics, nelf-affiliated NPCs

I really don’t remember Night Elves having a scottish Fae vibe to them.

Nelf aesthetics? Have you even been in a Night Elf zone before? The color palette is COMPLETELY different and so is architecture. Unless you meant trees = night elves?

Ysera is a freaking Dragon aspect of DREAMS and very connected to nature and the Emerald Dream, did you really not expect her to be there?

@Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord

and the only reason you all, the minority of night elf players who fall into this trap of self-inflicted victimization, deny it is to maintain your own victim complex from the last few expansions, starting in Cataclysm (or earlier and I didn’t notice, but definitely back then).

Lmao, okay, this crap isn’t even worthy of an answer, it is very funny though, thanks for that one.

[Droité-black-dragonflight]

Like it or not, NE zones are heavily associated with Large Fey Like Forests in perpetual starlight. In fact, they are the only group really associated with that variant of nature; so much so that Druidism is dominated by Cenarius brand Forest aesthetics and Elune “night”. You just don’t see nature being represented by Tauren step planes or savannahs, or Troll tropics or deserts.

The primary narrative that takes you through the zone ultimately is the discovery and ressurection of Ysera; complete with a revisiting of her death (and Val’sharah was oh so fun as Horde with Tyrande spitting on you while you help save her husband). The Afterlives cinematic exclusively has emotional resonance because of Ursoc; a Wild God with heavy NE relations.

Finally, the only content that could be associated with the Horde with Bwon and Jin is locked behind joining the covenant itself. You wouldn’t even know that story was there if you didn’t join the Nightfey, which a lot of Horde wont. And while I understand this is also the case with Tyrande’s story, there is still Ysera and her strong associations with the NEs to fall back on.

[Kisin-moon-guard (Kisin)]

I feel this entire argument wouldn’t be a thing if Blizzard had bothered to give Ysera and the Green Dragonflight more of a role in the story outside Night Elf related content.

She assumes the form of a Night Elf, is the adoptive mother of a Night Elf demigod, beloved by the Night Elf goddess, and has close, personal ties to Malfurion and Tyrande, the night elf leaders. She also blessed both Nordrassil and Teldrassil and has a long running agreement with the Night Elven people to have their men work for her as druids in the Emerald Dream. Every single green dragon we’ve seen (to my knowledge) also takes the form of a night elf and we only really see green dragons in night elf zones and stories outside general dragon stories like the Wyrmrest Accord.

The only time Ysera has interacted with a non-night elven group was when she sank Atal’Hakkar and made Sunken Temple in Vanilla.

I think most reasonable folk can at least understand why a lot of players consider Ysera to be a night elf oriented character even if she’s technically neutral.

If Blizzard hadn’t sidelined the dragons so hard and had actually given them more spotlight and shown Ysera interacting with the other druidic races now and again I think her role in Ardenweald wouldn’t feel quite so faction specific.

[Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord]

@Noctii-sargeras

Nelf aesthetics? Have you even been in a Night Elves zone before? The color palette is COMPLETELY different and so is architecture. Unless you meant trees = night elves?

Blue, purple, green, pink for no good reason. The color palette you see in Darnassus, Darkshore, Ashenvale, Moonglade, and yup, the primary color palette of Ardenweald.

Mainly wood based, open air architecture, favoring heavy wood grains and natural ramps over stairs. Often with buildings built right into trees. Same list of zones.

I guess you’re right, those are utterly different.

@Noctii-sargeras

Ysera is a freaking Dragon aspect of DREAMS and very connected to nature and the Emerald Dream, did you really not expect her to be there?

On the contrary, I fully expected her to be there. Why wouldn’t I when it was one of the major spoilers in the beta? But my lack of surprise does not negate her clear connections to the night elves, nor her presence there.

@Noctii-sargeras

Lmao, okay, this crap isn’t even worthy of an answer, it is very funny though, thanks for that one.

Hey, any time. I’ll even remind you of it the next time one of y’all posts about how you never get any new lore, because the new lore you get doesn’t count.

[Noctii-sargeras (Noctii)]

@Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord

I’ll even remind you of it the next time one of y’all posts about how you never get any new lore, because the new lore you get doesn’t count.

Literally no one complains about the lack of lore. People complain about it being trash AND the race being used as a prop for Sylvanas’ character. Jury’s still out on the Night Fae campaign.

@Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord

Blue, purple, green, pink for no good reason. The color palette you see in Darnassus, Darkshore, Ashenvale, Moonglade, and yup, the primary color palette of Ardenweald.

If you really looked at Ardenweald and thought “Yeah, this really looks like Ashenvale” I don’t know what to tell you, maybe you have a bit of an eyesight problem. Aside from them being mystical forests they have nothing else in common in theme or color palette.

I guess Maldraxxus is using Forsaken architecture. Guess I should make a thread about Maldraxxus being a Forsaken zone now. (Not to mention Revendreth ALSO having some similarity with Forsaken architecture, albeit less so.)

[Kaileath-wyrmrest-accord]

The colors and design of Ardenweald is not really in the Night elf wheelhouse. If you want that, go look at Val’sharah. They are emerald dream oriented, which is all verdant green trees and grass.

Ironically, the death side of the cycle is where Kul Tiran magic comes from. That is why there are invasive drust everywhere.

Also? Nightsong plays when Ysera is revived because it was played when she died. They were likely trying to evoke the same emotional response they got from a lot of people when they had to kill her. Also perhaps trying to drop a hint to do with elune as she is a big part of the song… but I digress.

[Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord]

@Noctii-sargeras

Literally no one complains about the lack of lore.

Oh, honey. I don’t think you’re new around here, but a statement like that really makes me question it.

Yeah they do.

@Noctii-sargeras

If you really looked at Ardenweald and thought “Yeah, this really looks like Ashenvale” I don’t know what to tell you, maybe you have a bit of an eyesight problems.

If you really looked at Ardenweald and thought “nope, I don’t see why people claim this zone has some heavy night elf vibes”, then you are deluding yourself or outright lying for the sake of an argument. Or you race-changed and never leveled a night elf, IDK. But if you can’t see the heavy visual similarities between those zones, compared to say Grizzly Hills, Hinterlands, Duskwood, Eversong, Ghostlands (the non-plaguey parts), etc, then I can refer you to an optometrist. They don’t handle color-blindness though, so I don’t know if it’ll help with the color blindness thing.

@Noctii-sargeras

I guess Maldraxxus is using Forsaken architecture.

Said nobody ever, except when they can’t think of a better zone to use. But I guess you’d say it definitely has nothing in common with Icecrown (zone, not citadel) and none of it looks Scourge-like at all because the shader is off by a point.

@Noctii-sargeras

(Not to mention Revendreth ALSO having some similarity with Forsaken architecture, albeit less so.)

The backwards thing here is, Revendreth actually has more in common with Forsaken architecture than Maldraxxus. You should visit a Forsaken town sometime, so that you’ll know what their architecture even looks like. You almost had a strong counter-argument here until you mixed your zones and undead groups up.

It’s okay, I know the real reason you mixed them up. I disliked Maldraxxus too and tried to rush out of there to get to the night elf afterlife zone too.

[Dreadmoore-wyrmrest-accord (Dreadmoore)]

Night Elf Posters spent a week arguing with me that no race except Night Elves were True Druids because only Night Elves were capable of entering the Emerald Dream on their own, via their link with Ysera.

Now we have “Ysera is neutral, nevermind the night elf themesong and night elf cutscenes and night elf backdrop.”

lmao.

[Twinkletorch-moon-guard]

it’s pretty sad to think that a big part of the reason that “bowdlerized vanilla European fantasy tropes where everyone is nice all the time” pings Night Elf is because “bowdlerized vanilla European fantasy tropes where everyone is nice all the time” is also what Blizzard chose to do with so much of nelf land even though it’s not really what draws hardcore lorehounds to them.

I can see why night elf players really don’t associate the zone with night elves, but it should be dead obvious why the rest of us (incl. Alliance) do.

[Noctii-sargeras (Noctii)]

@Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord

If you really looked at Ardenweald and thought “nope, I don’t see why people claim this zone has some heavy night elf vibes”

I can see why some people who literally never leveled a Night Elf would, yes. Because if you did you’d realize that no, Ardenweald does not have a Night Elven vibe whatsoever.

@Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord

But if you can’t see the heavy visual similarities between those zones, compared to say Grizzly Hills, Hinterlands, Duskwood, Eversong, Ghostlands (the non-plaguey parts), etc, then I can refer you to an optometrist.

Not sure what you’re trying to say here, but okay? It’s different from all of those AND from Darkshore / Ashenvale! Wow!

@Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord

Said nobody ever, except when they can’t think of a better zone to use. But I guess you’d say it definitely has nothing in common with Icecrown (zone, not citadel) and none of it looks Scourge-like at all because the shader is off by a point.

They use abominations. Forsaken use abominations. Case closed. (Using your logic here)

@Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord

It’s okay, I know the real reason you mixed them up. I disliked Maldraxxus too and tried to rush out of there to get to the night elf afterlife zone too.

I actually enjoyed Maldraxxus quite a bit, and Revendreth as well. The only zone I disliked was Bastion.

[Droité-black-dragonflight]

@Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord

I disliked Maldraxxus too and tried to rush out of there to get to the night elf afterlife zone too.

Man … Maldraxxus was … disappointing.

The only things I was halfway interested in were seeing if they’d handle Draka in a unique way, since Blizz is awful at writing variety into female Orcs. And Margrave Krexus, since both his design and voice were amazing in the cinematic. He’s even on the loading screen.

Which surprise! Draka is awful. She stays firmly in that “Female Orcs only are on a spectrum of being ZugZug Aggro, or Mothers”. For a character who’s supposedly a master warrior and spy … only getting the warrior. And Krexus shows up for a half a minute before getting gutted offscreen!

Screw that awful Scourge zone!

[Noctii-sargeras (Noctii)]

@Droité-black-dragonflight

Which surprise! Draka is awful. She stays firmly in that “Female Orcs only are on a spectrum of being ZugZug Aggro, or Mothers”.

To be fair Blizzard has a hard time writing for female characters in general, though it’s not as awful as it once was.

[Kaileath-wyrmrest-accord]

@Dreadmoore-wyrmrest-accord

Night Elf Posters spent a week arguing with me that no race except Night Elves were True Druids because only Night Elves were capable of entering the Emerald Dream on their own, via their link with Ysera.

if people argued that, they were goofy. They expanded past that lore point a long time ago. Their unusually strong tie, when they had one, was to Nordrassil and shattered when the blessings were ignited to fry Archimonde. It is a lot harder to walk the dream now than it used to be for the Kaldorei, as hard as it is for other races. Or well, it was until legion when the green dragons gave all druids tacit permission to use the dreamgates.

[Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord]

@Noctii-sargeras

I can see why some people who literally never leveled a Night Elf would, yes. Because if you did you’d realize that no, Ardenweald does not have a Night Elven vibe whatsoever.

I mean, short of posting screen shorts for you to look at, I don’t know how to help you see what others of us absolutely see.

@Noctii-sargeras

They use abominations. Forsaken use abominations.

You said architecture. Abominations are not architecture. Make up your mind now; you saying Maldraxxus has some Forsaken vibes? I’d agree. But if you’re going to specifically point out architecture and immediately pivot to abominations…