So, About AV

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
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1st rule:
Leave factional stuff, name calling and what not at the door, be respectful, you can disagree and still be polite and respectful.
Best to just walk right back out of 1st rule is not to your Liking.

2nd rule:
refer to 1st rule.

Ok rules out of the way.

AV sucks.
If you are losing AV sucks
And if you are winning, AV still sucks.

Now if you never played WoW way back in vanilla during 1.5 patch, that may not make a lot of sense to you, but i am sure you have at least seen a video of it, or a video of the recreation in retail called Korrack’s Revenge.

If not check it out.

Anyways, AV sucks, it was not originally conceived as a mostly empty open battleground, like AB or WSG which are mostly symmetrical so to speak.

It was designed with differing terrain that balanced it self through various
NPC and trap placements, the terrain no longer mattered terribly much.

These traps and NPC’s were hard, for our 1.5 selves anyways.
Zerging could mean death, and that is before the other faction saw you to PVP you.

AV was not played as a simple BG, but as a long double ended raid, with each side competing to finish first.
AV did not happen in 10 minutes even if the other faction all went AFK, you would still be 45 minutes cutting through the Raid portion of the BG.

Anyways, if you dont know what AV was, that gives you some idea and you can look up the rest.

My point is AV terrain will never play good at all, with a mostly empty AV
We could put the Horde cave in zimbabwi and it would not matter, terrain features that dictate X valley favors faction A, Y bluff favors faction B etc are totally devoid of the equalizers to the equation.

And the remaining NPC’s are somewhat castrated by us basically being post Naxx era toons running around a heavily nerfed, and arguably ruined raid.

I think both Horde and Alliance day 1 or early vanilla people know what i am saying?

So question is, being that Vanilla AKA Classic is static, frozen in time.

What is an acceptable forever solution.

1.5 data does not exist, or does not exist in an intact and usable form
so transplanting 1 AV is off the table.

I know blizzard wants to try to remain true to version, and true to the spirit of vanilla, but i personally do not think any of the post 1.5 nerfs to AV were ever in the spirit of vanilla.
I think they were done because originally AV was hated as too hard and too long and blizz wanted to see it more popular, but myself i see that (How AV 1.5 was) as being exactly in the spirit of WoW.
Here was this excellent lore based raid, which was also PVP, and it was a challenge.

I think in this day and age, with crossrealm, the popularity problem can be flushed down the toilet, we have enough people across all realms to run AV’s?

So, since a direct conversion of 1.5 is off the table, that leaves the idea of hand built custom.

All the info from back then is there to recreate by hand and well as the know how to tune it for our Naxx era toons and make it hard (remember it remains forever, if it is not hard, it wont last)
They did it for retail, but retail does not have to answer a lot of the criteria and guidelines that Classic does, in retail they can just make something up, and there is no precedent to be taken to task over.

So, if we wanted Blizzard to design a proper AV for Classic, which would have to be totally custom made, by hand.

And yet

Not be crucified for Changes, or slammed with Classic + demands pouring out of the woodwork or Well you did this, you you have to give us that, or the good old YOU LIED etc.

If at some point they revisited this in the future, how would you see a win win way for them to go about it?

I mean be honest, even if you are winning AV, the thing you are playing does not embody the spirit of vanilla WoW, if you were taking someone through the WoW Vanilla museum, it would look like a wing with all of the exhibits missing when you got to the AV wing, it is the section you’d skip and go to the snack bar.

6 Likes
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tl;dr?

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AV is perfect the way it is, because it’s current state makes it not the most efficient BG to rank in for either faction.

Leave AV alone so both factions are forced to actually fight each other on even footing in the good BGs.

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See #nochanges.

Remember #nochanges.

#nochanges never called for AV changes.

#nochanges never listened to the unending whining of the fair weather community.

Also let’s not confuse faction imbalance and other player driven influences to the meta for actual flaws to the game.

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go make your own av

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And remember, if #nochanges had won- we’d have the real AV up until it was neutered and turned into this mess with the Naxx patch- so potentially for about a year.

Too bad we got a 1.13 frankenpatch plus a few retail add ins like layering.

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So leave AV so Alliance can’t win it?

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I don’t understand why AV needs to be changed:

No one liked it in Classic (why do you think it got changed so often?)
No one liked it in TBC
No one one has liked it in 15 years

Just don’t queue for it. It sucks. Always has and always will. Let it die and go get honor somewhere else. If anything, ask Blizzard to give a way to gain AV rep outside the BG so people can stop queuing for it entirely.

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sorry you have a bad memory but 1.5 AV and classic AV really are not that different just look at the patch notes. You could take us and put us in a 1.5 patch on 1.5 AV and it would still get zerged in under 10m without anyone breaking a sweat.

People were BAD back then thats where the power level disparity comes from.

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This has nothing to do with faction imbalance.

Yes, i know no changes.
Thank you for your intelligent contribution.
Never saw AV in WoW 1.5 did you?

Well, if i worked at Blizzard, i probably would.
That’s the easy part, getting someone to approve using it would be the hard part.

No, that is not true either.
Blizzard can only #nochanges with what they have.
And all they had was 1.12 to work with, which unfortunately contains a deconstructed AV that remained in game like that for over a decade.

1.13 is not a frankenpatch.
Frankenpatch would denote mixing and matching pieces from other patches, which they did not.
Technically, a 1.5 AV in 1.12 WoW would be a Frankenpatch.
It might be a good one, but still a Frankenpatch.

It is not about winning it, technically, the kind of AV we had in 1.5 is even harder to win, And you will lose honor for even playing it.
But it is a hell of a lot funner.

Well, because AV post nerf-fest is a sad shell of what someone originally designed.

You misunderstand, a properly set up 1.5 type AV is not about honor, you will be losing honor for playing it.

You would not gain rep terrible fast in a 1.5 type AV either.

AV in 1.5 was not about rep or honor, they were not things that came with any great speed in AV.

Why does everything have to be about rep or honor?

No, it would’t.
You would be without your 1.6 to 1.11 gear and optimization and such.
And 1.5 AV is hugely different from 1.12 AV
For one, presently you can run across the entire battlefield back and forth and not die, unless an opposing faction member kills you, in 1.5 you might just explode, if nothing else kills you, and i am sure the opposite faction might have just a little to say about that.

Not to mention, in 1.12 we out gear the NPC’s that are left.

Did you actually play AV in vanilla (not on a PS) when AV was released?
Or even during BWL patch 1.6?

I mean to say they are not different does not make sense, they are worlds different, thats like saying A BWL with nothing in it but Nefarian isnt any different then the BWL you go in now.

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can u summarize. im slow and dumb, these are too many words for me

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No, i can not, i dont do TLDR

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I don’t think you actually played in 1.5 my guy. The reason AV matches last 3+ days is because people just quit queuing into it and went to WSG instead. There wasn’t 40v40 people clashing nonstop for hours and hours. People joined, saw it was the same game that was started days ago, then /afk’d out immediately.

The entire reason that rep rewards and the post-1.5 changes happened is because no one played the BG.

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Then you think wrong and played on a very unfortunate realm, as everything back the was realm dependent.

Yes, AV was terribly unpopular and took a while to get one going, but we had some really great pvp guilds on both factions that helped keep av active especially on weekends.
It may not have stayed a solid 40/40 through a 24 hour period, but that is to be expected, entire realms dont sit at max pop for a 24 hour period, people do go to bed.

Oh people played it.
No not even remotely nearly as much as how many played WSG, or later AB.

And yes, i get that someone decided, let’s nerf this to make it popular.
Does not mean it was actually a great idea. (It also did not work terribly well)
And since classic has crossrealm, the popularity wont matter so much.
Hell, it might actually become popular, it is not like AV is actually exactly liked now.
If it vanished, the only thing people would be mad about is that the vendors were gone.

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Gonna stop you there. There’s no ‘we’. This is a personal opinion of yours. One that is an exceptional minority. What less than a percent of the active playerbase cares about is irrelevant.

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This is what I remember. AV was the garbage bg you only joined when all others stopped late at night.

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No, actually you’re not.
There is a WE in that instance, dont cherry pick words to suit your need
or to make it look like something it is not, to score cool kid points.

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And all of YOU are free to create a private server where you can play 1.5 AV to your heart’s content. Technology is amazing, isn’t it?

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My fix for AV would be remove the 30 min bonus honor and reduce cap timers to 3 mins.

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What all others?
There was only WSG, AB didnt exist til 1.7

No one is free to create a private server.
WoW belongs to blizzard, anyone else trying to make their own server from their work is a thief.

1 Like