Snowdrift still feels weak

This latest iteration of snowdrift is certainly the best its been but that wasn’t a very high bar. Looking at aggregates, it is still a mostly ignored talent.

As been said before, either make the stun a stacking debuff that doesn’t require the target to be in snowdrift constantly.

Or make it so the stun procs faster than 3 seconds.

Or best yet, just scrap the stupid spell and give frost deep freeze back.

Also, frostbomb should be a capstone in the PvE tree or the initial talent leading to some capstone causing frostbomb to interact with frosts kit. Frostbomb is hella fun to play but since its dispelable, requires you to open frost tree to get off, doesn’t really do damage to justify itself and requires you to give up either precog or ring of fire (lol this spell is lame and op) or concentrated coolness. It can’t compete.

Also, how the heck is concentrated coldness still not just the baseline of frozen orb? Forbs still zoom through targets as if nothing is there. If we can’t get concentrated coolness then a talent causing forb to function like aorb as a big ole nuke that shoots out in a line, does a lot of damage and gives charges of procs and then goes away would be cool. Just anything to stop having the once per day forb decides to give the mage the finger would be excellent.

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You need to ask yourself the question of why snowdrift is mostly ignored.
Because most mages play with a rogue so they don’t need it.

I certainly been using it and it’s given me both kills and breathing room, I actually prefer it to an ability as bland as deep freeze because I’m not stuck in a GCD when at the start of the stun and it serves for more than just it’s stun when it scares melees off.

The answer most likely is that it sucks.

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Or that it’s a controlled stun and DR with cheap shot and kidney shot so is pointless to take when playing with rogues. Deep freeze would also get ignored as a PvP talent over other, better, PvP talents to match with a rogue.

You underestimate being able to Deep > Sheep, especially now that DB is on a 45s cooldown. It still would be taken.

And although Rogue is definitely the more popular arena partner for Mage, it shouldn’t be the only comp we get to play. [Deep Freeze] would be infinitely better than [Snowdrift] in literally any comp, but even more so in ones without a Rogue.

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And you underestimate how strong not being locked into a GCD is for a stun.

DB wasn’t even a choice for frost mage before DF, so I fail to see how DB being 45s CD is relevant here. You already have more ways to sheep people than in SL as a frost mage because of DB.

Yet Frost still struggles in PvP. A reliable stun would definitely help a lot in that regard, or maybe damage could just be cranked up to eleven instead.

But seriously, [Snowdrift] is way too restrictive. It being instant cast is a lot better than it used to, or course, but it just went from “the worst stun ever” to “very bad”.

Yet it’s the fourth most used PvP talent for frost mages, even for gladiators.

Snowdrift is fine, not everything has to be broken OP and Snowdrift does its job perfectly well.
There are other things to worry about when it comes to frost mage.

While Snowdrift indeed can be decently used as a defensive stun, the biggest gripe of people that want to have something like Deep Freeze is - they want a reliable and unbreakable offensive CC, as Frost Nova(s) and Freezing Could could serve the niche of defensive CC already. Lack of offensive CC means that Mages can have trouble with getting kills on their own, as not only people, especially in Dragonflight, have many ways to survive / negate your burst, but even the 100-0 playstyle, which was a solution for Mages in earlier expansions, does not work as good anymore, as health was increased by 40% and damage was not increased.

You can try to use Snowdrift as an offensive CC, but there are multiple issues:

  1. It requires you as a ranged cloth wearing caster to stay within melee range of target for several seconds, which is counterintuitive and makes this stun hardly useable in some forms of content, like Epic BGs (where to stun you would need to rush into enemy frontline and then they might kill you faster than the stun procs) or against caster cleaves in arenas (where running or even blinking in wizard wars up to your ranged enemies, especially following them behind pillar to stun, is quite risky).
  2. Its stun build-up is for some reason removed by snare / root break effects. That is strange, as they should have nothing to do with countering stuns.
  3. Even if Blizzard would fix that, Snowdrift is still not hard to counter - enemies can leap / port away, use a knockback on the Mage, melee can run out of it for split second to negate it entirely and then even safely run back, as it usually would not have enough uptime to build up its stun second time.

While Snowdrift having counterplay options and downsides is normal, it is just badly suitable to be an offensive unbreakable CC. The problem is that there is just no alternative to it, it is the only non-racial option Mages have access to.

As a result, while it is true that it is taken by Mages, that is often because such conditional stun is better than none, not because the ability itself is that good. That does not mean than Blizzard can’t or should not give Mages a more suitable offensive CC, especially since Mage’s current state already made Blizzard move away from their old principles, like making Combustion undispellable and creating Snowdrift itself.

Rogues and RMP should not be a justification for keeping Mages away from getting their own CC. Mage is a dps class, not a support class akin to Bard, so it should not rely on any other DPS class to succeed, especially if that is a single particular class. Blizzard should take into account how changes to Mages would affect RMP, but just that. So, if they would give Mages some personal tools, but nerf RMP synergy to compensate and keep its power at close to current level, I suppose many Mages would gladly accept that.

Though, I understand that some people could like even current implementation of Snowdrift and would want to keep it. The solution is simple - move Snowdrift out of PVP talents (I don’t think that giving Frost a PVE stun would shake things much, especially seeing its current DPS position in raids / Mythic+) and make it a Frost Mage tree capstone as a choice node with Deep Freeze. This way, people who like Snowdrift can keep and play with it and people who want an offensive CC can get it as well. They would not be able to get both and that should be a viable compromise, allowing to just pick a preferred tool.

I only pvp on BG. I use stun immunity + snowdrift, blink into enemy group and then blink away, it’s fun.

There are several ways you can easily get the snowdrift stun on a target.
You can Snowdrift into a DB or snowdrift them during a ring of frost and prep delayed abilities like frostbomb and meteor or hard cast a glacial spike during that time which will land during the stun.

Plenty of streamers that have shown it’s not only possible to do but extremely effective and you can absolutely 100-0 someone in a snowdrift stun with frostbomb, meteor and comet storm + an ice lance or two.

There is a massive advantage to having a delayed stun, even if it’s harder to land.
It’s the same with hunter’s Chimaeral shot, it can be cleanse but it allows for big setup.

lol its the other way around, mages play with a rogue because we dont have an on demand stun for setups

I’m so glad we have a Paladin here to tell us how mage is jsut fine and all the spells are super cool and do exactly what they should.

Otherwise Id still be thinking " man this snowdrift spell is really stupid and not fun to have to use. "

But this pally even has gold text… How could Zi be wrong!

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I was so excited about the update to it and I’ve experimented with it… but frankly even prefer ice wall over it. Far as I am concerned it is 5th in line at best with frozen orb being virtually required, ring of fire, ice wall, and precog. It is still clunky as heck and while I would love deep freeze back, assuming that won’t happen, I hope they continue to experiement with snowdrift. There have been numerous suggestions. Simply making it targetable on enemies (and dispellable) would make it so much more viable and have plenty of counterplay.

Agree frozen orb should be baseline. One of Holinka’s stated objectives was to get rid of required pvp talents and frozen orb certainly qualifies.

The only thing you are going to ONE shot in snowdrift stun is a mouse. There is absolutely NO one shot spell on frost mage that will 100-0 a lvl 70 player.

People are wise to a snowdrift attack… Its obvious and they only have to get out of it for a split second before it is then impossible to even salvage and still get the stun.

Frost bomb on that combo is worth about 30k, meteor 70-80k. Comet storm 70-80k. Two full lances another 70k… that is all crits with ROP and trinket.

So with the combo you spelled out for all us idiot mages who didnt think to literally use the only big damage spells we have in a snowdrift combo… that adds up to about 260k damage.

As mage I have around 80k more HP than that. And lets not forget all the absorbing abilities that exist.

There is a slightly better chance of scoring a kill if you just do a comet storm > Ray of frost > Flurry > IL IL combo… the Ray will do about 200k, comet storm 70k the flurry and the lances another 90-100k… This combo takes around 6 seconds to pull off, not includeing the 3 to get them into the stun… This means that if You full polyed the healer IMMEDIATELY before starting it… they are out before you are even halfway done with the combo… If you somehow get tricky and poly the healer while you are snow drifting the kill target and you time it perfectly so that you have 1 sec before the stun hits to cast comet storm… the healer will still be out before you can get off the ice lances… Yea… He isn’t spamming any sort of heal or shield is he ?

But it is highly unlikely you are going to not have a lot absorbed by shields or even pull off as people are wise to snowdrift and when they see you pop it and ROP, well they know what you are trying to do and at the very least they will run which will take you away from ROP since you have to follow them to get the stun, reducing the damage by 40%

If you are going to tell us how to play our class, please at least get it correct.

There are literally videos of the combo out there and I’ve done it repeatedly on my mage but don’t let that stop you from ranting about an ability that is perfectly fine.
I get it, you can’t 100-0 in a snowdrift stun because reasons, even though people have been doing it before the buff from yesterday.

If you want to complain about something, at least choose to complain about something that actively makes sense to complain about, like frost mage DPS in PvE or the existence of RoP.

The combo YOU specified will not do enough damage to Kill a player with PVP gear… to review…

““you can absolutely 100-0 someone in a snowdrift stun with frostbomb, meteor and comet storm + an ice lance or two.””

Post a video and prove me wrong

:roll_eyes:

Holy crud man… Do you realize the Spriest is DPSing too ???

You literally have a 1 on 1 as the first clip. Whatever, I’m done talking with you.