I really don’t like using Roll the Bones and I am not a big fan of cycling through Between the Eyes and Pistol Shot. That being said is a Snake Eyes build with Slice and Dice a decent alternative? I haven’t really seen any DPS drop while playing and the build feels more comfortable to me. Is the difference in DPS substantial or is the average person not even going to notice it?
Thanks,
You’ll be bottom DPS either way.
Not really looking to top the damage charts. As long as I can keep up with the rest of the group I will be fine. I just dont like where Outlaw is at right now but this is the only rogue spec I have ever wanted to play.
Well, I’m surprised. I just ran a quick dungeon slice SIM for you, and it came out to 27,057 DPS with SnD and only 28,750 with alacrity/RtB instead. That’s not nearly as much of a DPS loss as I would’ve thought. I’ve had single azerite pieces change my DPS that much.
That was actually why I was so curious. I suppose I had assumed the difference would be drastic and going with a SnD build wouldnt be viable at all. When I tested it out I was surprised at how little my damage changed.
I havent run into any issues so far damage wise so I was wondering if anyone else had done something similar. All the posts about this usually make it seem as though you would be better off using a fishing pole than SnD.
The big thing with playing snd is losing alacrity.
It isn’t affecting you much at the moment but at higher ilvls the gap between rtb and snd gets much more drastic
How high of an iLvl are you referring too? I doubt I will ever get this guy much higher than 425 or 430. Realistically speaking I will never be setting records or min maxing for DPS charts.
If you have high base haste and are running a sinister-strike focused build you can run SnD in PvP and its not a huge disadvantage at all but you do miss out on the “big” damage potential in exchange for a consistent level of damage. You get to spend more finishers on Dispatch/BTE than you do fishing for RTB buffs. That being said I really like RTB after sticking with it. Get XRoll addon it helps a lot.
+1. Never understood why you would want to gimp yourself when literally all you have to do is pretend Roll the Bones is SnD (refresh/reroll only when the buff is about to fall of) and you’ll do more damage than SnD. And you don’t like to use Between the Eyes or Pistol Shot either? So you want to just press Sinister Strike and Eviscerate?
I usually don’t reply like this, but something about this is frustrating.
My whole point is that I don’t see it “gimping” my character. I still do the same amount of damage during world stuff and I have no problems doing more dps than other people in my group. Even the Sims show it behind RtBs by a small number and I end up with a play style that I enjoy more than one that is silly.
Shooting a bunch of mobs with a single shot pistol using a skill named Blade Flurry makes my brain hurt. I keep reading that using a SnD build will cause all manner of destruction but I don’t see anything even close to that. Where are these numbers coming from? Max geared raid progression is something I will never achieve with this character so if SnD makes little difference to a decently geared character then I don’t see why it is considered not viable.
www.raidbots. com/simbot/report/9UJbQKUYzAEYLcgTczjhbS
-1700dps dungeons
www.raidbots. com/simbot/report/m1nTdjaW5znfHHNUHDeW2o
-1400dps bosses
Gap gets even wider once you get a 2nd azerite essence. Lucid Dream Rank3. and better azerite traits for shoulders/chest.
www.raidbots. com/simbot/report/dJy4VsAkGJNYEpFZvDxZfT
even just changing your traits around you lose about 2200dps going SnD and like I said it gets worse from here.
But if you can’t be bothered to press Between the Eyes when it comes off cooldown, or press Pistol Shot when a bright orange flame appears on screen, then there’s worse problems than SnD vs RTB and who cares if you’re gimping your character or not and you do you boo.
If someone kept the azerite traits for a RtB shooting build then it wouldnt make sense. Naturally you would adjust your traits so you are prioritizing other things. A coupld thousand DPS is really not that big of a deal. As I said before, I am not planning on pushing the highest keys possible or going for any mythic world firsts. If a little DPS is sacrificed for a build that someone enjoys playing then that sounds like a good alternative.
My original question was to see if anyone else had tried a similar build and also seen a “substantial” difference. There seems to be a lot of impulse reactions on the forums whenever SnD is brought up. I am most assuredly not the only person that abhors RtB and a build based around Deadshot and Ace up Your Sleeve.
I dont see a difference in my damage and one other person said that the difference in his sims were marginal.
You’re running Quick Draw which means you’re running a “shooting build” as nothing changes with Pistol Shot usage whether you’re running RtB or SnD. So if you’re not using Pistol Shot when Opportunity procs (even w/SnD), then like I said, there are worse problems than RtB vs SnD.
Also 2000 dps is quite a big chunk. That person simmed YOUR dps when he said it wasn’t that big of a difference. As mentioned earlier, that gap will get more and more wider with more gear/azerite/essences. For example, me switching over to Snake Eyes/Paradise Lost traits + SnD I lose close to 10k dps which isn’t “not a big deal”
Again though, if you’re not pushing keys or raiding, why do you even care? Remove your damage meter addon and just play.
I only have one piece of armor that has those traits because I haven’t found a replacement yet. I ran sims with a third snake eyes but it didn’t seem to make much difference. Replacing Deadshot with Wits and Ace with Scheming is not ideal but it puts me at the same dps as what I have now. I am cheap so I wasn’t willing to pay the 160 gold to reforge the headpiece when I could wait a day and do it for 5g.
I figured I would hop on here and see if anyone had recently tried a variation of the “meme” build before I put any real effort into it. If the build bothers you that much then you are free to find another post and tell them all about how to play a rogue. The numbers I get on AoE fights are more than what I used to get with a Deadshot build. Running sims is all well and good but they can’t beat actually doing the testing yourself in dungeons and world content.
If someone enjoys a build then they are more likely to play that character and make the fine tuning necessary to reach an acceptable level of damage.
Doesn’t matter what traits you have, you’re supposed to always use Pistol Shot when opportunity procs unless you’re at 4/5 (5/6 deeper strategm talented) or full combo points. Wasting opportunity procs w/Quick Draw talented is a dps loss no matter what.
Playing incorrectly can’t accurately test the difference between the specs in dungeons. Something as simple as changing 1 talent and doing the same exact thing (only refreshing RtB when it is pandemic range) will net you close to 2k dps. Again, do the same exact thing you’re doing. AR/BR on CD, finisher at 5 CPS, not wasting opportunity procs, etc.
If someone complains about not getting into Mythic + groups or their io is too low or they get kicked out of raids because of low dps, they are less likely to play that character as well.
But again for the last time if you’re just doing world content, +0s and that’s it, it literally doesn’t matter what you do or play. If you want to starting doing +1’s, normal raids, or content where team play factor’s in, you’re hurting yourself and the other people you’re playing with by being selfish and intentionally gimping yourself.
I didn’t realize I would upset the build police. I will make sure to remind myself that should I ever decide to play with the big kids in +1’s lol.
I don’t read about builds online so I can follow them to the letter. I just get the broad strokes and work the rest out for myself. I have never had any complaints with my tanking or when I play DPS roles. Should I decide to start pushing keys past the first few I am sure I will do just fine and be right around the same damage as everyone else.
You are right though. I didn’t actually care if I got a real reply because I already knew what answers I would get. I will send everyone I group with a few quarters in Bitcoin so they don’t get mad about me not throwing dice all over the dungeons. Silly me for wanting to try and salvage something playable from a spec I used to enjoy . Any chance I can get off with a warning this time?
You are playing the wrong class/spec. Give up now.
Fortunately there are other skills, talents, and traits for the spec. I happen to like what I have going on right now but I will make a note of what you mentioned. Not everyone feels the need to adhere to the current DPS meta with robotic efficiency.
Don’t tell anyone but I also make my pet battle teams based of how much I like them. I also queue for PvP battlegrounds in tank spec. All completely unforgivable but I do like to enjoy my play time from time to time.
Fun fact, not taking any talent in that row is roughly about 3% dps increase over taking slice and dice.
Roll the bone for life. ST - RP or two/five buff. Trash with wits trait, you can hold solo RP, GM, BS or any two buff if without skull and crossbone.
you came on the rogue class boards and asked for advice
it was given
rtb>snd currently anyway you slice it
take it for what it is
if you want to play SnD thats on you but you will always do less damage and its not competitive
THE END