I don’t know if anyone else has terms for various amounts of mobs.
1 target and never more = Single Target
2-4 targets, or 1 boss with frequent adds that don’t die super fast = Cleave
5-10 targets = AoE
11+ targets = Mass AoE
For pure single target fights I find myself doing just fine.
For AoE fights and Mass AoE I also find myself doing just fine.
But in dungeons for example when only 2-3 mobs are pulled. It just feels so terrible to even press buttons. I have recently learned that often just doing ST on 2 mobs is better than pyre, but for 3-4 mobs? Feels like Eternity Surge takes an eternity and doesn’t really do enough damage to justify using past rank 1. Shatter Star is nice, and even rank 2 Eternity surge isn’t that bad, but for longer fights I feel like classes that do good AoE still also do great cleave just as easily (little or no change in how you play it, at least when I played ret it didn’t matter, abilities come up so fast you could spam cleave literally the exact same as AoE)
What’s the trick for devastation on 2-4 mob packs? More specifically 2-3. Even 4 makes pyre feel less bad to use, but 3 even more specifically just feels awkward.
I would point you to the full wowhead guide as it goes into everything you’re asking, however:
At 2 targets, just disintegrate the higher HP target to get maximum mastery value (unless there’s a reason you need the lower HP target dead yesterday.
At 3+ targets: Spend Essence Burst and Essence on Pyre full time, but use Disintegrate instead if you have both Essence Burst or Iridescence: Blue. At 4+ targets: Pyre full time.
There’s some nuance to this, as sometimes you’ll still want to disint at 3 targets either way. For instance, this week with bolstering, I generally disintegrate no matter what on the higher HP target with 3 mobs.
But yeah, I highly recommend you go look at the full rotation guide.
On the three raider’s training dummies in Org and in my M+ loadout, I was pulling 300k. In my 2 Target Cleave loadout, I actually pulled a little less at 262k.
Here’s my loadout for M+:
Start the fight with a full Fire Breath, followed by Tip the Scales and a full Eternity Surge. Follow that up with a Dragonrage and use Pyre every time it’s empowered (glowy button). When Pyre isn’t empowered and you’re not moving, use Living Flame to empower it. If you are moving, use Azure Strike. Use one charge of Fire Breath and Eternity Surge on CD. Rinse and repeat. Once you get down to one mob, switch from Pyre to Disintegrate.
You should be using disintegrate at 2 targets (and at 3 with iridescence blue charges).
You should never use your empowers before dragonrage, ever.
You also don’t want to use tip the scales on eternity surge, as usually with trinket buffs being used with dragonrage falling off around your second set of empowers, you want to use tip on your second fire breath to get maximum value out of trinkets.
They’re relatively short CDs besides TtS. Why not? I mean, use your brain a little (not you specifically) and don’t use it before a boss or before a large pull, but if you have two minutes before any of that, go ham with it.
I mean, either way. You’re talking about maximizing DPS. I’m just saying what works for me. It’s cheap, simple, and easy to remember. They can build on it later and expand if they want or feel the need.
First. Stop editing, I’m trying to respond! lol
Second. You’re making things too complicated by maximizing. If they tried to pull out the suggested rotation and couldn’t get it down, they could be doing far worse than if they just stuck to a simplistic one.
I’m not trying to say I gave the 100% definitive answer and that you’re wrong, but small steps. If they’re not pulling the DPS following the most optimized way, change it up to something easier and build on it as you go.
I think hero talents are going to completely change how devastation is played too. Scalecommander will have godly cleave, and engulf might also be so strong in smaller groups it’s worthwhile.
There’s no point in full charging a fire breath on 2-3 mobs unless they will die before the dot ticks out. The extra time charging the breath is giving you no more extra damage, and wasting GCD’s you can spend on SS and disint. On a large pack, yes, you’d want to full charge FB most of the time.
This is a thread about maximizing dps. There’s just no reason to train your muscle memory to do something wrong, when you can start by doing it right.
The rotation isn’t complicated and you’re literally giving this person the wrong advice. Not simpler advice, just wrong.
Using empowers before dragonrage literally take extensions away and massively neuters your damage during CD’s.
That evoker is doing more difficult content than you, respectfully, and they asked for the correct way to play the spec, not a watered down version that isn’t any easier but takes a ton of damage off the table.
If they’re frustrated with their damage now and follow the incorrect advice, this will only result in them being more frustrated.
I’m not giving some calculus version of evoker compared to what you have, I’m just giving accurate advice.
Using empowers before dragonrage and using pyre on two targets doesn’t make the rotation easier, it just literally makes it worse.
I understand you’re trying to help, but giving advice that will make someone’s damage worse is honestly going to do the opposite.
If I go into any fight 1, 2, 3, 4, 5+ mobs with 100% of all my cd’s then yeah ill be pumping. I am talking about the fights between fights. We just pulled 32 mobs all my stuff is on CD, now we’re fighting 3 mobs and im just pooping out living flames lol.
Lemme give a specific example, the refti lizard dudes in HoI. Not hard to let a demo shout slip by, so a lot of tanks I have seen just pull them in smaller packs, it’s these smaller 2-4 mob packs I struggle to do well on. With packs that are 5+ or 10+ I find I do pretty well, even really well a lot of times.
edit:
basically for a comparison example - I played ret for 2 seasons and their spells refresh really fast, it’s super easy and quick to go from full aoe to smaller cleave and not lose out much dps. But on Devastation im having trouble keeping the pace with my larger group dps.
Yeah I feel you, the key in these moments is also to realize when it’s worth switching to disintegrate on a prio target even on 3 mobs. Your DPS won’t be considerably worse than just hitting pyre, and your prip damage is so good while being able to cleave with shattering star and disintegrate/scintillation, especially with iridescence blue.
Also keep in mind not to lose uptime value on breath by fully empowering it against 3 mobs for no reason. Leaping flames with still give you the cleave for that number of targets at lesser empowers, and getting to essence spenders ASAP in a 3 target pack makes it more likely that your can get a second maxed out breath in as they’re starting to die.
With 3-4 targets (and really any time), also make sure you’re switching to stay on the highest hp target unless there’s a reason not to, so you’re getting max value from mastery.
I try to save my empowers if the targets are close to dying, because going into another pack without empower spells leaves you in the dust with other classes. It depends on how long it takes to set up the pull.
Devastation seems like it lives and dies around the empower spell windows and especially around Dragonrage windows, so don’t feel bad if you can’t compete with braindead retribution paladins or demonhunters who can just vomit burst aoe at all times with little downtime.
Our damage profile is very bursty with fall off while their is not only bursty but also highly sustained.
Some specs are just better than others on continuous pulls and also vary in performance according to pull strategies.
Im really looking forward to both the hero trees for devastation. Scalecommander with cleave disintegrate and it’s giga deep breath along with bombardments, and engulf for flame shaper sounds like they are giving us yet another aoe taunt.
