And this is why weapon chain embellishment isn’t coming. Making things up has never and will never be convincing.
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Disarm on a 15 sec cd too please.
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Yess I can imagine it. If they gave shaman a quick disarm that lasts as long as shear and has the same CD… and everyone else has varying time/duration on a disarm too.
As long as kicks just auto lock you out of spell schools sure.
Disarms are not the same as kicks
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As I said at the end of my original post here, I didn’t think of that - and, yes, it makes sense.
Honestly, I really don’t feel like quoting a bunch of bits and pieces of the above conversation just to be able to (possibly) explain this to you. Really, just think about it for a second. If you don’t get it, you don’t get it.
I am aware of this; however, not all casters are Mages and Locks who have the luxury of 3 spell schools. Honestly, this isn’t really surprising either, though, when you take into consideration that Mages and Locks are pure DPS classes and have 3 DPS specs. Even then, like you noted, they typically have a particular spell school that is quite crippling to kick.
The other casters are not quite so lucky, but - apparently - they don’t matter. Only Mages and Locks matter because they best fit the narrative.
No, but you’re going to do it anyways.
See? 
Honestly, I’m not entirely sure just what you’re trying to prove with this poorly written list. How is this connected with Precognition, again? Can we get back on topic, OP? 
…As it should be.
Lol. It really wasn’t a choice before, either.
Eh… I don’t really think a general statement like that works here. A lot of classes/specs have “Play or suck” PVP Talents. The Precognition PVP Talent doesn’t make up for the loss because it really isn’t as good as you’re all making it out to be - and given the changes coming in patch 10.1, it seems like the devs agree.
Yeah… I could see that. I’m not sure what all classes/specs have access to Precognition. Very interesting point that should probably be looked into.
I’m saying that Bloomsday is making some pretty strong counter-arguments. I’m not typically impressed with anything that Bloomsday says, but… IMO, they’ve got some points on the board this time; Bloomsday’s slam-dunking on you like they were Shaq. At any rate, there’s no point arguing with me about it. Argue with them. I’ll watch. 
Ok, buddy. Buckle up. I’m about to tear your response to shreds.
First and foremost, let’s start with the quote above. I don’t know if you’ve been following along, but if a caster successfully jukes a kick, they just wind up in some other form of CC. Their “Reward,” apparently, is… nothing. Wasting a short ~10-30 sec. CD is not much of a “Consolation prize,” either.
Uh… Precognition doesn’t “Pop.” It’s not a random procc. If Precognition proccs, that’s entirely on you and/or your teammates for failing to land a kick.
As per “Allowing casters to cast their biggest burst with no counter play”: well, there’s a slight problem with that thought, Kimosabe. The Precognition procc isn’t up to the them; rather, it’s up to you. Casters aren’t going to be holding on to their burst hoping to (possibly) juke a kick sometime. That might be a strategy in the “Rat leagues” where that strategy will actually work, but it won’t work at higher rating when good players will assume that every caster is running Precognition, and, so, they’ll be much more wary of - say - a Lock fishing for a kick with CDs available.
Interrupting a cast and locking out a spell school for x secs. isn’t enough of a reward? How about the fact that a well-timed kick can outright win a game?
What’s the counter-play to a kick? If I juke the kick, you just follow it up with CC (unless I’m running Precognition). If I get kicked, then I’m interrupted and spell school locked for x secs. Bringing teammates into the equation in a bid to artificially complicate the argument isn’t helping your position because “The door swings both ways.”
Again… you’re acting like Precognition proccs are up to the caster. They’re not. Stop playing poorly. If you see - say - a Lock cancelling a spell over and over with CDs available, maybe don’t throw a kick at him just yet, or take your chances and be ready to dip out if you get juked.
To be fair, there are more casters in the game than Mages, Locks, and Shamans. All 3 Priest specs have only two schools - one of which is usually the best for locking out in any given situation; Monks have one, Paladins have one, and Druids have one - IIRC. In general, a well-placed kick can effectively shut down a caster. Honestly, you should know that playing a Hunter.
Yeah… that’s what you guys do best around here: talk trash and then hit ignore. Slap that ignore button one more time for me, Daddy. 
You think you’re any better with that unkempt mop on your head? Get a hair cut and get a real job!
Nothing but net, Bloomsday.
SWIIISH! 
Barfbishop at it again eh? Dude somehow can’t get past 2100 in the shuffle and just blames melee for his inability to push button lol.
Quick get the "pop"corn
Blizzard doesn’t care about tracking rebuffs, if they did they would make something better than weak auras in game
Lol it’s even funnier because I been 2300 on the spriest and 2500+ on WW and mage. Poor cov, probably got long cov or something.
Don’t be this fried pls. If disruptions relatively the same as it’s been in a while why do we now need a crutch for casters when historically they’ve done fine, current are doing fine, and will be overpowered with it?
So casters should have good mobility, good defensives, and interrupt protection? While they are already strong?
Then why do plenty of casters run it into certain situations, it should be a choice, not baseline.
So your saying it’s not good, when I play shuffle my dps teamate gets juked by the destro lock and now because of that I now take over 200k uninterruptable damage in 2 casts? You should have to lose something somewhat important in order to get it. You’ll see it being baseline with be a massive problem next season and will definitely get nerfed in some way or another.
Who would go onto the internet and lie like that?
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Make Kicks for melee take up a pvp talent slot then, or even throw one of the mobility talents/CC in there instead. 
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You’re overthinking a very simple, modern problem. Currently, juking kicks is dog water because people respond to a failed kick with instant-cast micro-CC, with those instant-cast micro-CC’s effectively becoming a sort of “Pseudo interrupt”: a fail-safe for mongo players who couldn’t be bothered to learn how to play better. That’s the whole reason why the devs made the Precognition PVP Talent. I’m not sure why you’re arguing about the past, like that matters.
As per casters “Doing fine” and being “OP”: I mean… you can’t just say that. You might want to start your threads by defining your terms. For instance, what - exactly - does “Doing fine” even mean, and does everyone in this thread agree? And what makes something “OP?” We might have to start by discussing those things. If we can’t even come to a consensus on such matters, then arguments for/against something are practically pointless.
That being said, I will say this: knowing how Precognition works, seeing it already is in the game, I really don’t see how casters are suddenly going to become “OP.” All Precognition really does is make it so that careless mongo players can’t just CC into a failed kick. If you don’t like that… then I have to seriously wonder if that perhaps means someone like you. Are you a mongo player who lobs kicks all over the place? Have you been burned by this once or twice? Is that where this “Crusade” is coming from?
In general respects, you know that what I’m saying is right - you just don’t want to admit it. Casters need good mobility, seeing as they are ranged classes. That mobility is necessary to “Making space” - or kiting, in other words. If a caster can’t “Make space,” can’t kite, then they are going to die.
On the matter of “Good defensives” and being “Strong”: all of this is mere opinion at this point. What makes something a “Good defensive?” Can we really apply a blanket statement like this, saying that “All casters have good defensives?” Can we really say that “All casters are really strong?” I mean… this is part of the problem you’re having in this thread - and it’s what Bloomsday was trying to point out.
You’ve got a whole lot of personal opinions… and that’s about it. It’s perfectly fine to have personal opinions, and even to hope that something changes going into patch 10.1 - but you don’t really have the right to treat your opinions like they’re factually true without very convincing supporting evidence. Again: you could start with definitions, because a lot of the things you mention are quite vague and ill-defined; they’re too personal, too subjective. It’s hard to have a decent discussion when we don’t really know what the other person is saying.
…And plenty more would like to run it, but can’t due to “Play or suck” PVP Talents - which is why it’s being turned into an equipment embellishment.
That’s not what I’m saying.
That’s RSS for you. Go play 2s or 3s if you want more organized gameplay.
I don’t think that it will be a problem; however, I do think that it will get nerfed due to all the whining on the forums (which has already started, before the patch has even dropped) - and then you’ll see a backlash from that, too. PVP will die off even more as a result. Just wait for it.
What are you talking about?
I’ve never even played world of warcraft.
Wait, what about ranged kicks?
You… you do know that most ranged classes have kicks (ranged kicks non the less), and the one that doesn’t have a kick is getting a kick.
Maybe the issue has nothing to do with melee vs ranged. Maybe the issue is that every class in this game has an interrupt and not everyone needs an interrupt.
not you
jukes your disarm
waitasecond
don’t bother. Caster brainrot is too strong.
How does it feel just being a goblin in a fursuit?
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I can tell.
Nah they can stay. :3
Agreed, melee may not need them.
Generally most of the micro interupts are longer and kick and have other uses aswell. If you burn a stormbolt to interupt a chaos bolt thats overall a win for the warlocks pov imo.
Doing fine means doing well into the meta. There are tons of different caster comps that are r1 viable currently. Casters are doing extremely well in solo shuffle with 3 of them having their r1 cut off being over 3400. Op is when the vast majority of games are caster cleaves generally specifically being one outlier. For example ret was op a couple weeks ago.
There is a lot more than this. Landing a kick and juking it are in itself a mind game. Neither is ever going to be 100%. However if you land a kick most of the time it’s not the end of the game for the caster. But now when you do miss a kick against certain classes the game is over or you need to trade major cooldowns because of it. For some specs this is completely fine, but the problem is there are a number of specs that have increadibly quick casts for game winning abilities. For example chaos bolt at times, boomy cyclone when playing the pvp talent, and md. Kicking them are imperative most of the time, but the casts for them are so fast that it makes it super caster sided in a ton of those situations.
The problem is this isn’t true. Most of the time casters only need to kite during specific goes. Most casters are durable enough to face tank normal damage and only need their mobility in specific situations.
Lying is bad.
I do, I have, and have been infinitely higher than you ever could be. There are certain situations where you have to interrupt or fall behind, but if they juke and get precog they win the game, if you let the cast go off, you are insanely behind. Precog would be fine if it wasn’t available to specs like destro where if they get it up they just win the game.
Caster meta and melee cleave metas are what kills the game. The problem is the fundamental design of some casters causes them to pair way better with casters rather than a melee and the opposite is true for melee. Unnerfed precog will put us into a caster meta, depending on how it’s reworked in the future it may rebalance out.
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Ah, so you’re just salty. Gotcha.
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Not the one that made a thread angry about casters getting precog to punish bad melee. Seems like you’re pretty salty to have not played PvP in years but still posting in the arena forums
Should’ve finished your education zug brain
I knew I never should have made this thread
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At least it was remotely entertaining.