Is anyone finding more success in m+ as Assassination instead of Outlaw? I feel like my Outlaw damage has kind of peaked, but my Sin damage is scaling much better as I get more gear. Anyone else finding the same?
Yes, I’m pushing keys 16-17 mostly, and my assassination damage is about 30% higher than my outlaw damage in both cleave and single target.
I also find outlaw to have double the actions required per minute, which draws focus away from interrupts and dodging.
All of the highest ranked M+ rogues are outlaw, it is clearly still the meta.
I believe that with gear that only has versatility and crit stacked as high as possible, outlaw would be slightly ahead. Worth? doubtful
As I transition to Subtlety for raiding (I hear Sylvanas daggers are required) and I stack vers/crit, I will revisit outlaw. Right now I’m leaving it in the trash
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Subtlety says “Hello”
https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/59820-shadowlands-season-2-mythic-dps-log-rankings-week-1-the-kings-in-yellow/
Something to keep an eye on.
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I’d love to do a dungeon with you, I’ve never been beaten by sin rogues in dungeons, even with ilvl gap and during tyrannical runs as outlaw.
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well, I enjoy sin a whole lot more then outlaw so of course I should do better with it.
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Yes sub is preforming well but a lot of rogues don’t know how to Play sub to its max potential sub can be very punishing if you mess up or there is down time on a boss fight.
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To follow up on original post, I switched to Assassination from Outlaw and I’m seeing much higher numbers. I’m probably more comfortable on Sin, but I also think that Outlaw, even with the range extension, requires much tighter positioning by the tank, and you, and it can really eat into your DPS. Roll the Bones is also still creating a lot of variance as well, and a bad streak of RtB can crush you.
So I’ve been playing rogue for 12 years, and this is my take. Outlaw, right now, is very strong. It’s very easy to pull amazing AoE and ST DPS with outlaw, with a lot less variance and a much less complicated rotation. Assassination is also solid, with higher ST than outlaw, but the issue arises on the rotation. The assassination aoe rotation is significantly more complicated and you lose a ton of DPS if you can’t restealth, if mobs die too fast, etc.
I main Assassination & primarily do M+, it’s very good but you definitely do need re-stealths to make it work with buffed garrotes x3. Spiteful can make it very difficult to get back into stealth between pulls.
I find sub the superior spec right now in keys. It does comparable aoe to outlaw, even outperforms in big pack pulls and consistently more st.
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What are you pulling normally in overall & dps as sub?
Large pull dungeons like DoS, SD or Halls with a decent group can easily be 8.5k to 9.5k dps overall. 7.5k for other smaller pack pull dungeons. I think the top sub io players are doing 10k 11k overall. This is from 16 to 18 keys ive done so far as sub.
I havnt tried outlaw yet in keys above 15, maybe outlaw is better with my gear.
Great info. Thank you
last season was hard on sub. not on lack of damage so much, but how it was go go go thanks to prideful. it was hard to get restealths or you where blowing your shadow dance right before a boss pull or saving them and doing terrible damage.
this time are its looking like sub is gonna be alot better.
for myself, I feel like assassination is a little weaker now than it was at the end of prideful.
Tbh if they could buff outlaw pvp output , buff Sub pve output and buff Sin a lil in both , we’d be in a dream rogue era , where all of our spec are awesome , yet we wouldnt see rogue in wfr since we bring 0 raid utility 
I try to switch it around 9.0 played sub , moving so sin for 9.1 , probably outlaw for 9.2 . Dont play other classes so it keeps it fresh for me .
I don’t find being in stealth a big deal for sub. You don’t get much from a restealth if you don’t run MA, other than a free shadowstrike to proc a free snd. Outlaw benefits from restealth to get a count the odds roll, which matters abit more but not that big. Assassination needs restealth to do subterfuge garrote damage, which is big.
Sub imo is the least impacted from chain pulling at the moment.
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It also comes down to what your group needs, ontop of the gear that you have. I’ve been running with two big aoe burst classes, and they bring me as sin for the single target burns.
I’ve also got super haste heavy gear, and I’m necrolord. I’ve been tempting a sub swap, but it doesn’t feel good to play as necro.
I do agree though, outlaw feels very weak compared to the other two currently.
Edit: for reference on average I’m doing about 9-11k overall in your DoS/Halls kinda keys, and just slightly less in the smaller pull dungeons.
Not sure what the issue is with you guys but I’m pumping like crazy with outlaw. Sub is good but sin is like dumpster tier in keys. I mean why would you want to track 5 different bleeds every pull while depending super hard on constant restealths then still do less damage than sub / outlaw?
Even if you did comparable damage to outlaw it has extendo arms and can cheese mechanics like bucking rampage with 100% uptime while also bringing gouge which is probably the best spammable CC for M+ in the game.
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I’ve tried every spec as a venthyr rogue, With many different legendaries. AoE fairs well with each but sub rogues prefer larger pulls as they cap at 8 targets opposed to outlaws 5 targets. Sub rogue really prefers single target or 4+ targets. With Slv daggers it would balance the small pulls better. (ToP is a pain for sub as pulls are generally around 3-4 mobs with a normal group. Get a good tank you’ll have a blast on sub) Outlaw has amazing burst windows for aoe. Sin just dot everything you can and you’ll be fine with AoE. Unless you are running MA legendary as sub restealthes are less critical compared to sin and outlaw. As I tried all venthyr Covenant I also tried Flag legendary, worked well with sub and sin, but fell a little behind with outlaw. Venthyr sub and sin single targets is very strong. The ramp up after getting full bleeds on your target as Sin is quick and Sub is very bursty in dance windows. Outlaw has respectable ST too.
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I do mythics as assassination mostly b/c its my raid spec. It does fine, but situations where you can’t restealth suck because garrote is large portion of your damage on pulls. If I had the weapons to support it, I’d probably do outlaw instead.
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