Im new to rogue and wanted a spec thats ok-easy to pick up but has depth and i can grow as a player. ive been loving assassination but sometimes the damage lets me down. i made this character which i plan to be my main this month. im watching guides etc to get better at interrupting and even did got a mouseouver interrupt macro. someone said Sub is similar to assassination. but wowhead says is kinda unforgiven so i wanted to know from the guys who got rogue experience which spec to play between these 2 (cuz outlaw is too fast, too many things to track and im kinda slow)
Assassination is more forgiving because of its DoT based damage (Damage over Time). This means you not penalized as badly for having to move away from your target. You don’t have to have 100% uptime in order to do good DPS.
Subtlety, on the other hand, is focused on burst damage created by burst windows from Shadow Dance. You only have 8 seconds per minute to blast as much damage as you can. This is what makes Subtlety more punishing. If you mess up the rotation or Shadow Dance gets interrupted, your DPS takes a big hit.
That’s the basic difference in a nutshell. However, there are other nuances that come into play.
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Dont do assassination if u think outlaw is an issue. Assassination is dotting everything then focusing on a single target and splashing everything out. Then you got snap shotting, pooling energy all while trying to cast vanish, kingsbane, shiv, garrote and thistle tea all at certin seconds of the kingsbane. There is a reason why not many people play assassination. Took me about a week of study and practice to get it down and i still f it up. Outlaw is the easiest so…
That’s because Subtlety does higher DPS even though it’s less forgiving.
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humm then outlaw is the starter spec?even tho its the same few buttons its a lot to track and keep tabs on while doing your dps, so again and im sorry. but would you recommend SIN or Outlaw then? im not asking for a shortcut or an easy way out,ill learn rogue in due time but i need something that teaches the basics etc, i mostly do raids, but i did my share of M+ as sin (hit the 2k rating yesterday)
There is a talent that spreads your dots coming out of stealth and with Shadow dance to help reapply aoe doting its not that bad just have to hit the timing window to get 2 garrote’s and a rupture right out of stealth.
I find assassination is more fun but that is just me. Have fun on finding the spec you like of the choices.
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I would go with sin, Sin is what this rogue has been 90% of her life. Vanish/SD for the aoe spread of Garrote and Rupture for aoe dot spread. As stated above there is a talent that will spread rupture and Garrote coming out of stealth. Which also spreads the Garrote silence and you have SD to reapply aoe dots. which is the build I am using. Not to mention the Envenom to add seconds onto SnD. Also look at multiple sources for talent builds not just one.
This is my best advice for you
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Outlaw is a bit too fast for me too so I tried fairly hard to get good at sub because sin isn’t in a good place right now damage-wise compared to the other two, but what killed sub for me was being energy starved too often. I stuck with sin because even though the damage potential is lower, at least you aren’t as worried about energy management.
Probably a skill issue though, I’m not really a rogue main I just play it as sort of a side project.
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More then that boss to play assassination correctly. Snap shooting, proper timing of vanish at 3 seconds on kingsbane, 5 to 6 seconds of thistle tea before kingsbane ends. Keeping 2 shivs for kingsbane, pooling after you built 4 combo points for sudden demise. Basically spinning plates on fingers in order to maximize dps, but once you learn it you are a beast
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Well it also depends on if your running a poison or a bleed build. Either seems viable but I will be honest I haven’t played rogue much this expansion other than leveling and doing what I am doing.
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Yeah I feel like for the comparative complexity of assassination gameplay, we don’t really get satisfying returns.
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Envenom needs to hit harder or do something more than what it does.
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I was thinking about picking up my shelved rogue from s2 and trying out outlaw.
Ive been grouping with outlaw rogues lately that have been doing like 500-700k dps overall.
Its interesting you mentioned its too fast paced for you. I noticed over 50% of the damage the rogues ive grouped with all comes from blade fury.
Im tired of working so hard at arance to be blown out of the water by blade fury.
I was apprehensive because i thought the spec seemed a little boring if 50% of your damage comes from a passive effect.
Just wondering what about outlaw is fast paced?
Sub has way more self healing…if that’s something you want
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When you say you’re seeing outlaw rogues do 500k-700k, are you talking about retail, in Dragonflight? In raids or in m+?
Or in Classic somewhere?
I see you’ve got all 10s already for mythic so I am suspending my skepticism a bit, but it is hard to believe. Except maybe on certain fights in m+ or raids. Maybe.
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There’s lots of cooldown reduction so for me it was hard to keep track of what would be available when, and I ended up having to play reactively instead of my regular timing things out. Being relatively unfamiliar with the spec combined with non-peak reflexes ended up in a lot of lost dps.
After seeing the ability damage distribution being so heavily weighted toward blade flurry I figured outlaw was a one-trick pony but there seemed to be a series of other abilities that buffed/optimized blade flurry to do the damage it does. It’s not like DH where you can just blade dance on cooldown and faceroll everything.
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These were rogues in +10s, BH for one and nelth for the other.
Both rogues were over 500k dps overall and blade fury was over 50% of their damage (on trash, on single targer bosses id out damage them slightly but was still way behind overall. They were doing 1m+ dps on most trash pulls)
I realize these dungeons have a lot of mobs to pad the meters, but both rogues were way above the other dps (which included demon warlocks, ret pallies, and myself).
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I really like Sub, just wish there was more build diversity. The current Dust build is way higher than trying to use Goremaw’s Bite or the Rotten, and it’s hard to take Vigor and Thistle Tea without giving up Cold Blood. I really wish Vigor was in the middle of the tree or baseline. Sub doesn’t go for haste anymore and it feels like more downtime than I’m used to, haven’t played Rogue since BFA really. Haven’t tried Sin much yet but it seems fun too, just always liked Sub for the fantasy and burst.
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My solution to this was not to take Cold Blood from the beginning of the expansion and pretend it didn’t exist.
Ok, that’s a psychological, and not numerical solution, but you can’t miss what you never had!
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I guess this goes to show that rogues are broken AF. All three rogue specs should be more closely grouped on the charts. I have not heard of any assassination rogue getting anywhere close to 500k yet in season 4.
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