Shrouded Suffocation

Classes Rogue
1

So, I know this is the currently the meta azerite trait that you should try and have x2 of. My question might also just be too late in the tier but here goes anyway. After WEEKS of m+10 chests/emmesarries/WF/ect, i finally got a 375 body with SS on it. Thing is I have x2 Double Dose right now. Is it going to be better to stick with my stacked trait or add in this one? My azerite chest with DD on it is 375 as well so no loss in Ilvl.

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You don’t need 2 SS to be competitive, or even 1 for that matter. In fact many of the top performers on warcraftlogs don’t have a single SS trait and run Master Assassin (my personal favorite build) Double Dose x2 is actually higher dps than 2 SS by quite a bit - but it plays a different role. Double does only works on a single target, where as shrouded suffocation works on multiple targets.

I use Double Dose x2 + Nothing personal on tyrannical weeks (and sub one of the double dose for Origination Array in uldir). On fortified/bolstering weeks (aoe-centric encounters) I wear at least one shrouded suffocation.

Of course, shrouded suff can be great single target too. But from my experience it’s actual single target dps output relies pretty heavily on your haste (more ticks, more energy, hence why it is so strong in uldir)

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Awesome thanks for this advice it actually helps a lot. If I can get hands on another DD or SS pair of shoulders I think I’ll be set for being able to swap to what’s most appropriate (my uldir shoulders are pretty crap in m+).

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I mean, this question is a depends. It depends on what content you are running. Also i think

is terrbile advice for plus’s. Where on 90% of trash pulls you’ll never have any benefit from a trait… So before i’ll give an answer my question here is. What type of content are you referring to with your question about SS?

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Mainly M+ though I am getting back into the raiding scene this weekend in prep for the patch. I feel I can safely assume SS is far better than DD in M+ but is it worth going 1DD 1SS instead of 2DD? :slight_smile: sadly I don’t have any shoulders for M+, stuck with archive of the titans there.

Also an unrelated question you might be able to answer. Since I’m getting back into raiding soon I wana be as optimal as possible so was looking at race changes. Why is BE above everything by a country mile when they have no racial to increase dps? Really just because of the stuff that can be cheese with with their dispel racial?

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I should have clarified. It’s not like I don’t use SS or aoe. Just with my M+ group on tyrannical weeks I spec single target to push bosses as fast as possible because I’m by far the highest single target dps out of my group. They are better at AOE than I am.

Shrouded Suff is really great for M+. I use it a lot. It just really depends on the week/instance.

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Also keep in mind, with 2x SS you want to spec Subterfuge for multi target. With 2x DD you can spec Master Assassin or Nightstalker.

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Interesting… I’ll look into that as well. I currently run Subterfuge anyway because I mainly do M+ :). Would you be able to maybe tell me why Blood Elf is head and shoulders above every other race for PvE?

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Mostly cosmetics. Everyone loves playing an attractive character (myself included). At one point they had an extra interrupt that was later changed to be a purge. Still useful, but the actual dps output between all races is <1%

This is definitely correct. If you are going 2 SS, subterfuge is almost required or you lose a lot of dps potential. Allthough 2 DD makes good use of all three (though nightstalker is generally worse all around.)

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Hehe, I’m aware of the blood elf racials xD I was around before BC launched. I was just going off of this.

https ://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pve-stats/races/rogue

which reeks of BS to me. And upon further looking at it I think it’s just showing how many rogues of that race there are. Which isn’t what I was looking for at all haha. I’m just gonna assume Trolls are they best this expac because of their Haste racial? I do like the Orc AP one though…

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Troll technically sims the highest, but again the differen’t is pretty minimal. Less than a gems worth of dps.

Troll +0.89%

Pandaren +0.83%

Blood Elf +0.66%

Orc +0.65%

Dark Iron Dwarf +0.61%

Gnome +0.56%

Undead +0.56%

Maghar Orcd +0.55%

Void Elf +0.45%

Nightelf_night +0.43%

Goblin +0.39%

Nightelf_day +0.26%

Worgen +0.22%

Dwarf +0.21%

Human +0.17%

Nightborne

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So SS is def better when it comes to Mythic +, mainly because it gives you good aoe as well as great burst boss dmg. (note its most optimal running subterfuge and exsanguinate). Since most bosses will typically only last 3mins SS pulls ahead of DD. And depending on the key level Archive is actually pretty good, since you can typically keep 18-20 stacks the whole dungeon. and on high keys 15+, 1 archive will actually pull ahead of 3 SS. So i would stress not having the 3 too much.

To answer your question directly though, it is work going 1DD 1SS instead of 2 DD in M+, but for single target raiding 2DD 1Archive with Master assin and toxic blade will pull ahead.

As far as the BE racial goes its actually not ahead if you look at bloodmallet or hero dmg Troll is actually number 1. Its just BE is great for M+ for arcane torrent especially on Raging weeks. Also just realize you mentioned for raiding not +. troll is the best spec for raiding currently for the haste CD.

Anyways hope i helped, and if i made anything confusing please feel free to ask. More than happy to help.

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I’ve never had stacked double dose come anywhere near ss for dps in an actual run, I only imagine it does if you’re literally hitting only one target in an encounter with no adds that lasts several minutes.

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on warcraftlogs, i see all the top sin rogues using SS mostly though even on tryan weeks, the top/latest showings. i rarely see any DD used by the top, maybe just one, and rest stack 2 SS. so im confused as to which i should be using for Mythic’s. but i do get it where it depends on some weeks if its tryan or fort. and the trait echoing blades seems to be catching up for aoe

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I think part of my learning experience is based off the fact I haven’t gotten a shrouded suff piece in like 3 months (only piece I have is 370 jerkin from Fetid). So i’ve become pretty accustomed to running other traits in M+ (though I still use it on certain instances/affixes)

When my team starts a M+ I typically ask in discord, “Would you rather me go more single target? or more aoe?”. Depending on our comp, and the current affixes, I talent and trait accordingly to fill for what we need. For example, if we’re doing a high key Shrine of the Storm on a particularly difficult week, sometimes they want to be able to push bosses (particularly the second boss) as fast as possible. In that case I usually go Nothing Personal, Double Dose x2 with master Assassin/poison bomb (I peak around 40k dps during opener, sustain around 20-25k throughout. Around 20-25k on trash.). If trash is going to be the bottleneck I’ll typically run shrouded suff/echoing blades/subterfuge/Crimson tempest (i’ll sustain 30k+ on trash, but on bosses peak around 20-25k, sustain around 15-20k)

I’m certainly not advocating that SS should not be used in M+, it’s fantastic for M+, but it’s certainly not the required be all end all that many make it out to be - particularly for single target.

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There’s no reason to not use SS even during tyrannical. Bosses are still going to die fast enough to inflate its value.

It’s the superior M+ trait and it’s why Assassination rogues are so strong there.

If you’re only doing like 10s though, don’t sweat it too much.

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if thats the case on your numbers, could you please teach me how you get those numbers, based of your ilvl and rotation ? peaking 40k and then sustain 20-25k? i would like to know. i mean your gear is hella better than mine, i still only got 370s, rare 380s, but even so what should i numbers look like then?

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I have Flasks, scrolls, haste food/feast, pre-pot, hero etc… on most M+ dungeons.

My Master Assassin rotation is Pre-Pot, Garrote, Mutilate, Rupture, Vendetta, Mutilate, Toxic blade, Vanish, Envenom (crit), Mutilate (crit), Envenom (usually crit), Mut/Envenom again if I still have time before refreshing bleeds with < 6 seconds left.

Note: I generally can’t pull that kind of peak when running subterfuge, but the sustain is roughly the same. Master assassin is crazy up front burst. Also, that’s my “100% uptime” dps. Some fights you have to stop dps all together for mechanics alot so those fights will obviously go down a bit. I’m wearing 380 gear, but my effective ilvl is around 387 (sockets add roughly 12 ilvl to any given piece).

Here is a good example of the numbers I’m talking about on Vectis. This was up against 2 equal ilvl rogues running SS+subterfuge. Peaked around 40k, because of 2nd phase ended up averaging to 17k overall.

warcraftlogs(dot)com/reports/WMFKd7AZ3cT8gjxm#fight=22&type=damage-done

take out the (dot) and replace with .

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