This is mainly an issue for people who have MS/OS. Should they be punished with a gold/time cost when they need to fulfill 2 roles? For example my main is a healer/dps, and this kind of thing would make me a lot more unwilling to heal because I have to spend time/money to switch over and it’s not like WoW is known for treating tanks and healers with kindness either.
I swap talents between doing random bgs and raids. I use different talents for m+ and raid. Are you really saying I should wait days before doing swapping to a different form of content? I’ll definitely be changing talents for torghast too, I did for visions as well. A cooldown of a few days is unacceptable, being able to use tomes to swap talents is fine.
Yes, I’m saying you should wait. Make a choice and stick with it, instead of acting like a gerbil on a quintuple espresso laced with speed jumping from one to another.
Lol not much more to say to that except what a horrible idea. I honestly don’t understand how you play the game with that mindset, but it looks like that is mutual so have fun doing whatever you do.
shrugs Because I grew up playing games where if you missed a choice or didn’t like your build or just plain thought you sucked, your only options were suck it up and press forward, or start over from the beginning. You made choices, and agonized over them before making them, because that was going to be what you were left with, so you picked what fit your playstyle, and ran with it, hoping for the best, instead of chasing a meta or jumping back and forth. You worked with what you had.
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You can play those games though. A big reason why I don’t play other MMOs for the long-term is because they don’t offer this type of flexibility. I can be a healer AND I can solo dps. I don’t enjoy being a healer that needs to depend on others to do simple tasks like dailies or boss killing.
A big part of WoW’s success was catering to this kind of casual playstyle. Stop trying to turn WoW into some hardcore traditional MMO when there are options out there for exactly that.
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Thats well and good, I’ve played many games of that type as well. However those games are not wow, I’ve always found wow to be best when played as a social game and in particular as a game where you do things with people. I don’t want to hold back my raid with a crummy build or even a crummy class/spec even though those shouldn’t be a thing from what I hear, but they do exist.
I’m fine with my character sheet being locked in dnd, I accept when I can’t get a dialogue choice because I didn’t go into medicine or speechcraft, but when I’m playing wow I want to help my buddies fight bosses or players and I don’t want to be held back by arbitrary systems while doing it.
And the talent system, as it exists, is just that - arbitrary. It’s one more hoop you have to jump through to help your friends in your content of choice. Is jumping through that hoop to access the relevant piece of your class engaging or enjoyable? What is it accomplishing?
I feel it gives a wider pool of power from which I can pick and choose to help people out while not going out of the range of some arbitrarily budgeted spec power. Its nice to have options and I do find it engaging to look for places to use my talents when I can. Some are simple, is this aoe or single target, but I had some difficulty deciding on what aoe talent on mythic hivemind since a big frost wyrm was super satisfying at the start. Its fun to think about how to use my talents, and if I can use them to coordinate with someone else.
Another fun one is frost conflict and strife which gives us a bouncing frost attack thats worthless on single target but massive if you have two targets standing together. I don’t use it all the time, but I have had fun using it and finding places to use it. Once again though I feel talents allow players to have more power to choose from rather then a shallow homogenized default build. Its not perfect but I’d rather have it then not.
Like now???
I change this word, and everything is still exactly the same as you described. Except I still have to open my stupidly pointless toolbox before and after every freaking encounter.
I have to question your idea of fun if you think eating a book and switching from aoe to single target is fun.
No, seriously. What the everloving do you enjoy about the above sentence? Eating a book and flipping single target to aoe. Just stopping and making sure you flip your switch as fast as everyone else. How is that fun and engaging gameplay? Tell me. I have zero freaking clue how that’s fun.
I say no. Simply because the players who swap talents now just won’t be able to for “x” amount of time, and the players who don’t still won’t.
It doesn’t solve a problem. Only burdens a portion of the playerbase.
Yes.
I wouldn’t be opposed to that, but the “homogenization bad” crowd would have a field day. Also, people aren’t forced to change their talents if they don’t want to. They can do any build they want.
To be fair, neither is forcing the other x number of people to wait 3 minutes and then summon them isn’t really fair either.
People who want to swap should deal with the expense of tomes, not push the cost onto the raid.
Really we are getting to the point where we might as well have restrictions, or we might as well not.
These silly in betweens that we have just don’t really work and ultimately divide the community.
If players are expected to want to swap during content (the reason we have tomes) then why not just have them unlocked completely instead of having an arbitrary lock.
If they are designed locked than why have tomes to allow swaps in the first place?
Same with the whole “swap specs and talents but can’t swap azerite” nonsense. Pick a direction and stick with it.
They either want us playing multiple styles or they don’t.
I think you’ve got a good point. I don’t think swapping talents constantly is good for the game. But I don’t think that a straight up lock is good, at least not for standard talents.
Perhaps there can be say, profiles. Talent pages for specific sections of the game. One for raids, one for mythic+ and one for standard gameplay (since PvP already has talents). If you go into a raid, you automatically swap to the raid talents, if you go into a mythic+ you automatically swap to the mythic+ talents, and once the timer starts for a mythic+ and the first boss is killed in a current raid, those talents are locked in, you can’t change them. With the talents unlocking once the dungeon completes (or you leave the group) for Mythic+ and when the final raid boss is killed, or the week resets for raids.
This way, you can’t swap talents for each boss. You’ll have to make concious choices on what talents you want to bring to your raid or dungeon run, but, when you’re outside of that dungeon or raid doing world content or hitting a target dummy for simming, well you’ve got the freedom to swap at will then as long as you’re in a rested area or city.
I don’t know a single player who “opens their toolbox before and after every encounter”.
Yet you want to force me to choose between being a flag carrier in a bg or not once for an entire expansion, even though some bgs are carry-the-flag and others are not.
Were you planning on having me desert the ones my talents are not set up for?
If you feel you are currently forced to change specs/talents/essences/corruptions with every pull, you’re doing it horribly wrong, and the game should not be reworked to accommodate you and your bizarre preferences.
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I think talents work well enough the way they are. Which is one of the reasons I don’t want covenant abilities to be talents. I like the idea of more types of choices being added.
The way talents currently work doesn’t really give you a true choice with both pros and cons to that choice. You simply switch to whatever talent you need at the moment. I don’t know the solution to this, except to maybe bring back talent trees and ditch the glorified prime glyphs we now call talents.
I get players wanting to use a solid build for m+ or bgs. But the talent system begs you to rotate it out like a toolbox. Even the mainline talents have clear winners for pvp. There’s no choice. You have to give up the cool talents that tweak your play style for the cc that’s inexplicably locked behind a talent row. That IS garbage design, and I don’t care if you can’t see that.
Indeed. Locking class functionality behind talents did not combat bloat. It just made accessing the entirety of your class a hassle.
Indeed - maybe it was the glyph system that needed to be updated and the talent system tossed, since that makes more sense than the current setup.
That’s a frustration I have, as well. “Back in the day,” if you gamed the system and painstakingly researched the most optimal way to build your character for a specialized purpose, good for you! You should be rewarded by being overpowered when that specific situation presents itself. These days, though? The expectation is that everyone is a min/maxer and content is developed as such. Thus forcing you to do so to play the game “properly.”
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