Should we be able to be self-sufficient, or not?

Community General Discussion
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Curious to hear the opinion on this topic. Because we’re definitely at a fork in the road for WoW.

From the beginning of the game through the first few expansions, you have access to pretty much everything-- except the very best stuff. The most obvious example is that in BC, the (Crusader: no) MONGOOSE enchant only dropped off Moroes. So if you didn’t Raid, you couldn’t get it.

I forget when that philosophy changed. Cata or MoP? Certainly by WoD. But at some point, they just let everyone learn everything, with just a little bit of effort.

But HOOOOO-LEEEE-COW that pendulum has swung ENTIRELY in the opposite direction.

Just skimming through my Tailor-alt, and mere toys … require being Renown TWENTY ONE with Dragon Exp!!! So even if that alt gets a 50% rep buff, that is still an inordinate amount of playing I’ll have to do on that chr, just to unlock patterns for things that provide ZERO player power. It’s JUST A TOY.

And that’s just ONE alt.

Do we now need to talk about having Alchemy on an alt??? Honestly, I LIKE the concept behind the Alchemist fiddling with their reagents and learning their craft … but if you have this skill on an alt… good luck!! It requires SO MUCH WORK!!!

All of this with the fact you’re still putting in 100x the effort just on your main for their professions. There is just no way you can do this unless you no-life it. And honestly, I think that’s ON PURPOSE!!!

I just don’t think I agree with it. Maybe not EVERYTHING, certainly? The i415 2H Axe that I can craft after putting 50+ points of profession knowledge in and truly becoming a MASTER of my craft? OK… maybe.

But a TOY?? Silly little things don’t need to be months-long grinds. They should be immediately available, and as skill-ups to provide Artisan’s Mettle.

The new system is good. It’s just a little too extreme.

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Crusader enchant dropped off of mobs in WPL in Vanilla.

But, yes, the crafting system could use some work. I’m getting tired of the lack of work orders to fulfill when that’s how we’re apparently supposed to level professions after 50 or so.

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I was hoping the event would be interesting at the minimum. It is not even close. It’s nothing more than mindless mob grinding against questionably tuned trash.

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I think it’s fine to have longterm goals and eventually get it unlocked. I didn’t get exalted with venari until the end of Korthia lol

I think renown will just happen over the course of the expansion and renown rates will likely get drastically buffed every patch. Putting toys and misc patterns behind the renown locks is better than gear imo since it never becomes deprecated

Also 12h cooldown on the engi toy to swap race is a scam

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That’s the thing though, presuming you play any amount you’ll eventually gain the renown through weekly and quests. For me due to the nature of my life going to do weekly quest (spark and rep)and 8 mythic keys each week and that’s it. I have no doubt I’ll hit 21 on each before the season ends.

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I prefer all characters self-sufficient, every single spec. I want tanks to be able to solo dungeons and dps to be able to solo dungeons and even healers to be able to solo dungeons if they play well enough.

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Sorry-- I meant MONGOOSE.

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You have to realize, part of the proffesion revamp is making it a viable long term progression path for players who don’t invest on the power side. If part of your argument is that recipes being gated behind renown makes it harder on alts, that would be true if we did not get a 100% rep buff at certain gates.

I think its a good thing that progressing your profession doesn’t end after a single week.

To the part about self sufficiency, i disagree COMPLETELY that blizzard should not encourage professions to intermingle and encourage relationships. That’s how it used to be in vanilla, blizzard should always strive to encourage players to interact NOT self isolate. If you feel like you don’t want to talk to other players… that’s what the work order system is for.

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It’s not that at all.

My life/playstyle is just that I have A LOT of little 10-15 min moments in my day where I can’t really get anything “serious” done like M+ or a long quest chain or anything like that.

But I can hop on and herb/mine for 10mins. You’d be surprised at just HOW MUCH that adds up.

And from all those little moments, instead of paying Richard TSM Jerkface prices for stuff … I CAN JUST MAKE MY OWN. (There is SOOO MUCHHHHH satisfaction in that!)

For all the people that just “buy a Token and buy the mats”, I’ll tell you as someone that has never done that: it’s always paid off to farm my own stuff. Rare drops, discovering something I’ve never seen before, etc etc. It’s ALWAYS been worth it. It’s part of the fun of the game for me.

You’re ignoring the fact that you REALLY have to play your alts now if you want to progress professions in any meaningful way. And across the SIX alts it takes to do that… I’m sorry, but that’s asking too much.

I like the change in direction for Professions. I just think there’s a happier-medium between where we were and what we have atm. The new system is good, it just requires WAYYYYYY too much effort for alts.

If you only have 1 alt, you probably don’t understand what I’m talking about. This post is for people who are TRULY self-sufficient with EVERY profession. You can’t imagine how much effort that takes now. Like, it borders on impossible.

So again, somewhere between “incredibly easy, can do it in 2 weeks” and “a hair shy of impossible” there should be a happy-medium.

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Hard agree on this.

And whenever I do see work-orders, they are for a schematic that I haven’t “discovered” yet.

I’d like to be able to level my Engineering without having to rely on RNG or recipes that cost insane amounts of gold.

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I think the point is that leveling your profession will take time, work orders aren’t showing up because most people seem to be advertising on trade and getting personal orders rather than the public ones.

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This is fair, except it takes more than time.

Because of how we acquire Profession Knowledge, Plans, and Artisan’s Mettle … if you don’t actually PLAY your chrs/alts… what would have taken them (sic) 9 months, will now take 16. The expansion is all but over by then.

And that’s just for ONE.

All the Rep boosts in the world don’t matter if you don’t PLAY that chr. And many things are at 15-20+ Renown. Across six alts???

It’s too much.

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I have an alt that i recently capped and he got to about 13 thanks to the 100% buff, BTW if you reach 20 renown you’re boosted 200% until you hit 10. So if you push rep on 1 character only you can catch up your alts in 1 week after hitting those gates.

I understand where you’re coming from but at the end of the day, you have to play the game. If you feel like being self sufficient is that rewarding then it should be your goal for the first 2 patches instead of just the 1st one.

BTW all the BIG impact recipes can either be bought on the AH OR they are learned through the knowledge system, the quests are weekly and not daily for those so its a bit more doable for your circumstances.

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self sufficiency is one of the major downfalls in mmo’s.
It dilutes the need for other people to be social within the game.

When wow first started you needed other players and great friendships were forged because of it.
Now its devolved into a consoles best guess at a mmo.
There is only a barrens chat community.

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I don’t have a problem with profession leveling taking time.

It’s just that there should be a clear-cut guaranteed method to level them like in previous expansions.

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Blizzard needs to design a game for the playerbase it has and stop trying to impose social engineering strategies to effect personality change on players.

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there is no hurry to get that toy pattern though - just casual play will get you it in a year if not less.

The world quest event is giving you one renown level for doing 10 world quests. So that means if you do the one time quests and just that one world quest event 10 times you will get your 21 with very minimal play.

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I have gone down the self reliant route… It’s not as fast as I would like… But I answer to no one

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yeah you have to advertise on trade, especially if you are ahead.

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1> I am playing the game. A LOT. On my main. Why isn’t that enough?

2> This is the first time you’ve had to play to this extent on your alts just to do something as simple as professions.

I’ll say it again since you reiterated the point but then blew right past it: even with a 200% buff, getting to R20 takes A LOT of playing. That was NEVER required before.

And I am agreeing that previously it was TOO EASY. It’s fine to admit that.

It’s just now… it’s too hard. I can admit that, too.

The real solution is (obviously) somewhere in the middle.

UNLESS Blizzard actually does want us to very specifically NOT be able to be self-sufficient. They haven’t come out and said this. And without that statement, it just feels like an overreach on a new system. I’m not hating on them for that, this system is COMPLEX. But it should be obvious it requires too much effort across multiple character.

Like, imagine if Profession Knowledge was account wide. Right away, you solve 80% or more of the problem. But I admit, they may be too close to the “too easy” side.