Historically high end pve and PvP were seen as a bit harder than the other aspects of the game, and over the last few years we’ve largely moved away from that.
Why?
I understand we want more people engaged with the content, but why force it? If people don’t want to do M+, they don’t want to do m+. If they don’t want to do rated PvP, they don’t want to do rated PvP.
Changing the systems and making them easier and easier defeats their purpose. Why does Blitz rating go to 4k in the same seasons that 3v3 is capped at 3100? Why am I doing +11s with tanks that don’t press rotational abilities? Why is the seasonal affix going off in +10s and it doesn’t insta wipe us?
These mechanics in M+ aren’t hard. They’re an “are you paying attention at all” checks, and they should punish you.
Why am I getting the seasonal 2500 achieve within a week of starting to do m+ with half PvP gear while people ignore affixes, don’t kick, don’t stun, they just treat it like a greater rift.
Why am I getting 2500+ cr in blitz with players who don’t know which base is even active? That don’t press interrupts or cc?
The game doesn’t need to be insanely hard, but at the point I’m hitting the final meta achieves (Elite PvP / 2500+ M+) I should be able to expect people to… play well?
Idk, I don’t like delves so I don’t do them. Blizzard doesn’t need to change delves because I don’t like them. There’s other content for me to do.
I understand the frustration, but I think this argument overlooks some important context about where the game is and where it’s headed.
High-end PvE and PvP are still hard Top-end keys (25+), Mythic raid progression, and high-rated 3v3 are as punishing as ever. That difficulty hasn’t disappeared, what’s changed is that entry-level access has become more forgiving, and that’s a good thing. Not everyone queueing into Blitz or running +10s is aiming for top-tier play. They’re learning, participating, and enjoying the game at their own pace.
Getting 2500 rating quickly doesn’t mean the system is broken, it might just mean you’re ahead of the curve. Should +10s or mid-level PvP matches require near-perfect group coordination? No, those brackets are supposed to be stepping stones, not gatekeeping walls.
As for rating discrepancies, Blitz and 3v3 use different systems, with different MMR pools and goals. Blitz is intentionally designed to be more accessible and less punishing. It’s not meant to replace traditional rated PvP; it’s a side mode that brings more people into the competitive space.
The point is this, the game still offers brutal, high-skill content. What Blizzard has done is open the door for more players to participate without being punished right out of the gate. That’s healthy for the game and the community long-term. Not every system needs to be tuned around the top 5% of players.
You don’t like delves, so you don’t do them, fair enough. But that same logic applies here. If someone wants a tougher M+ or PvP experience, that content exists. It just doesn’t mean every tier below that needs to be miserable to preserve a sense of challenge.
Let people in. Let them learn. The real test still lives at the top.
There’s a huge gray area between “I’m really good at M+” and “I don’t like M+ so I just won’t do it”
There is a huge variety of skill and goals among players who do M+. The current difficulty level seems to be keeping more people engaged for longer, and that’s good for the game even if it doesn’t let you lord your achieve over casual players who are able to push higher this season and get them too.
They also added a new higher meta achievement for the good players, btw, 2500 isn’t the top. These game modes scale infinitely, so its not like the top players are losing out on their challenge, they can still push as high as they can.
I personally do not think so. It should be fun, an adventure, feel like you make progress.
Some people find difficult = fun, I am not one of those; and its ok to think differently.
I disagree entirely when the meta achievements stops at 2500. That isn’t where you’re learning. Similar to 2400+ in blitz being represented as “Elite”. You’re not elite (it was also meant to replace old Gladiator) if you’re not aware of which node is active.
“Elite” and gaining 99% of rewards a bracket has to offer is not a “stepping stone”.
This is false, Blizzard has stated it is the same system numerous times. The difference is they artificially inflated Blitz like they did with Shuffle early on, so the ratings were extremely out of wack with organized 3v3 while giving almost identical rewards.
This resulted in 3v3 being dead and Blizz needing to brick Shuffle in line with 3v3 rating, then Shuffle saw a 65%~ drop off in participation the moment that happened.
I’m not good at m+, that’s the point I’m making. KSL being 3k doesn’t change the point I’m making either.
I’m able to 2 chest 11s in PvP gear with 0 addons starting this week. We ignore seasonal affixes in this run a number of times, yet still 2 chest it as a full pug with no comms.
Game should be harder than that, not everyone needs to be able to walk to 2500/3k because they’ll cry if they don’t get access to things they don’t earn without Blizzard doing 90% of the legwork for them via making content easier.
But isn’t the biggest difficulty in +15 and Mythic raids? Been a while since I did +10s (since Shadowlands) so I might be a bit behind on this. But I never felt +10s as the real difficult content, only 15s and beyond.
They were, however, the difficult content when I was getting used to +10s (Although I always knew it was only difficult for me at the time, not the real difficulty). In such a case and for a veteran, +10 would be too easy, but for others trying it, won’t. Therefore we cannot judge it much in that regard.
Well, back then (when I did M+), one could only get KSM by timing 15s. But after that I’d think only doing it for the difficulty. But if +11s is the end for rewards and achievement, I would scale things indeed.
Or just keep Mythic Raids as the real difficult part, but that is harder to do as the group is bigger and takes too long.
Just looking over drustvar and 2400 in BG Blitz is like the top 3% of the ladder pretty much the exact same as 3v3 so if its not elite in Blitz is it even elite in 3v3? hell its even the top 2% or so in Shuffle
Why? 2500 isn’t the top achievement. I casually bounce around different characters, my highest score is 2492 and that characters just needs to like an 8 or something in one dungeon because I’ve also timed other higher keys and one 12 now. But, I’ll never get 3k because I’m not great and I bounce around characters casually. 2.5k isn’t meant to be a top achievement this season and there’s nothing wrong with that. You can say its super easy all you want, but that doesn’t change 16% of profiles having it even after everyone got a +6ilvl bump.
KSL is a mix of times 13s and 12s, like five 13s and three 12s. Why are you coming here talking about how easy getting the top achievements are when you don’t even know what the top achievements are and how to get them?
The M+ score is logarithmic over skill rather than linear like it used to be. Raider IO score used to be exponential with keystone level, which has always scaled the mob hp/damage exponentially, which made it about linear with skill. If I was 3k rating, someone who was doing top keys might be 7k rating, accurately reflecting that they are contributing more than twice as much as I am, whole package. Now great players are about 3700 score, and I am 3200 rating. You would think I play even close to their level, but no, I interrupt about 6 high priority casts per key.
I don’t mind this as an average style player but I think top players would mind it a little. Now them going from 3500 to 3600 is like them going from 5000 to 6000 in legion
Hard to look at data this early in to the season for pvp specifically, you’d want to take a look @ S1 data. For example:
S1 3v3 max cr (on eu) was 3140~, max Blitz CR? 4200. You also (almost) never lose rating in Blitz, its very, very similar to S1 Shuffle (people hit 36,37,3800 cr and have never come close again, because the bracket gets hyper inflated S1).
Yeah now its 10s because players couldn’t handle that.
It is 100% forced by the incessant bawling done by the community about how “unfun” M+ is (which is really just "this wasn’t something I could basically turn my monitor off and do, so nerf it!)