Survival should be optimized using ranged abilities and melee abilities. The range/idol equipment slot needs to come back. Ranged dead zone should be a thing again (just tighter, so there’s no “real” dead zone between melee and range), and that’s where Survival can really be unique and exciting - weaving in and out of melee to bomb, sting, slash, and bite. Disengage and harpoon enhancing the flow of toggling between the two.
BM should be a melee optimized spec, fighting right along side your beast (with a carefully placed Misdirect->Aimed Shot to initiate combat, and tie in a distinct hunter fantasy).
Also, melee hunters need the option to dual wield OR two-hand that some other classes are getting back.
Ok, good troll. Even doing it with a troll character. /goodjob
Itd be a fun thing, i would put it for all 3 spec, but the deadzone wouldn’t be there. You’d be forced to use melee only abilities if the target is on you.
Survival was the only spec to change role(ranged to melee).
But yeah, so you’re saying that adding in a new spec in an expansion where they AREN’T doing major overhauls to all other specs, that it would be more work, compared to doing so in an expansion where they ARE doing major overhauls to all other specs as well?
Okay…sure…
No it isn’t.
Not even sure where you got this from. It doesn’t even relate to what you quoted.
By that I mean that it does not relate to the point being made with what I said.
I guess you missed this part:
because one class, other than their own, gets something new
The change to melee survival DID make a lot of players quit the game. Specifically, certain Hunter players that did not enjoy having their preferred playstyle being completely removed from the game. With no remnants whatsoever that made for a suitable alternative to that playstyle.
Prior to Cataclysm, it wasn’t even an actual Core Specialization.
Prior to Cataclysm, you had the core gameplay surrounding your animal forms as a Druid and then you had specific talent choices that improved upon parts of said animal forms and the gameplay tied to those.
The steps taken going into Cata where they started to focus more on defined playstyles(in the form of Core Specs), quickly showed them that having multiple playstyles, no matter what role those filled, within the same Core Spec, would not work in the long run.
Incorrect. The specs were exactly as unique and defined as they were meant to be, according to the design at the time.
You can go back and look for yourself.
Besides, this is a non-argument as even IF the specs were actually too similar to one another, they could have just “fixed” that going into Legion anyway.
I mean, the big theme and philosophy of Legion was going to be Spec Fantasy and Spec Identities. Soo…there wouldn’t really have been a problem anyway.
Also…
MM “felt more Hunter”
This depends entirely on who you ask. This is not strictly a point of objectivity.
This has so much to do with subjectivity as well.
Got a source on that?
Yep, and it still stands.
Your argument was about whether redesigning/making changes to an existing spec is considered simply “moving some strings slightly which are already there”.
And no matter what was done to all other specs going into Legion, what they did when they changed SV from ranged to melee, wasn’t just “moving a few strings”.
At least try to keep with your own argument…
Ofc there are many factors that play into whether players resub/sub or not. And especially if you look at whether players will stick around or unsub, it often comes down to more than one thing as well.
But no matter how you look at it, giving a new(old) playstyle to a class which players are asking for/are interested in, there would be a lot of benefits to making that addition.
The argument here, is about whether those benefits/upsides outweighs the potential downsides.
So far, I haven’t seen a single argument that holds up in regards to the above case of “more downsides”.
The argument of required resources/time etc., same thing. It does not hold up based on past decisions and changes. If it should, then those changes shouldn’t have happened in the first place.
Was going to keep going, but at this point Ghorak, you are being a crusader. For as long you go and use moded data to prove your points, you will not be credible at all.
If you want to be less crusader, start taking the whole thing in.
I can agree on this. At the very least it’s one of the big reasons.
Yes.
It was a lot of fun. Personally, it was/is still to this day the most fun spec the Hunter class has seen throughout it’s history in the game.
If MM was so similar as some people claimed it to be, I wouldn’t have minded to play it instead of RSV. But I did.
And no, I’m not just saying this now. From the end of WotLK up until the last tier of WoD(where they destroyed it in preparation for Legion) I played RSV, and only RSV. No matter it’s performance.
It wasn’t until HFC where it just wasn’t possible to bring a hunter playing RSV for progression that I had to switch if I wanted to continue raiding.
Worth noting here, is that I stopped raiding a few months into HFC because of the above.
Is reading so difficult for you? How am I the one playing semantics when you are literally claiming that he said something that he did not say. He even wrote a big post about it in the other thread clarifying what he wanted (hint: it wasn’t “Delete melee hunter”).
And again, why are you so hung up about this? Do you really have zero arguments that don’t rely on putting words in other people’s mouths and lying about it?
The whole what in? What are you referring to here? How many times have we asked for your data and you haven’t given any?
Earlier, there was a lot of argument about jack of all trades vs. versatile… but really the best word to describe SV in its current state is hybrid. I was playing my 120 SV hunter and I found that I had an inadequate melee kit and an inadequate ranged kit, letting me be mediocre at any range. This is neither JoaT or Versatility; it’s disappointing.
I think Blizz has put themselves in a weird corner where insisting on a melee Hunter variant has garnered enough melee Survival fans that they’d be mad if it were removed. I don’t know if that number of fans is bigger than the number of players who’d come on board with a new ranged SV variant. I can’t say if that would be true or not; if I don’t like the way a spec plays I usually shelve the character until next expac. In any case, I strongly suspect that the choice between ranged and melee SV is not going to effect player numbers significantly.
Also, we’re operating on a “big faith” assumption that if they did bring ranged survival back that it would actually be as good as it used to be. The reality is that it probably would not be. Having said that, the current hybrid iteration is just not all there. If it had a full fledged melee kit, I’d be much happier. Alternatively, I’d also be happy if they could make a decent replication of the old ranged SV. With the return of some baseline (ranged) abilities to the SV kit (only usable with ranged weapons, naturally) now might be a natural time to return to ranged.
I guess that doesn’t really voice an opinion here… but for what it’s worth, here’s what I got. Melee… ranged… I don’t care. The current spec needs some work. Put in the work, make it good, and I’ll play it.
Me personally would switch back day 1, not keep unsubbing time to time from flustration and enjoy something i had best fun of my life from end of bc till before hellfire raid. That massive nerf in wod just screamed please leave survival so we can change it in secret.
I agree with your sentiments there. If anything it couldn’t hurt for Blizzard to add a few more specs for the heck of it. Sure it would take time and resources, but lets face it, blizzard has those
TBH I wouldn’t mind having the dead zone back if It meant I could have a melee weapon, while being ranged again. BUT, I want a few melee ablities that tie along with that again.
Wing clip for one.
A hard hitting ability like Raptor Strike used to be.
Not saying I would be able to stand toe to toe with a warrior or anything, but if you’re going to have a dead zone again, you need options.
Problem with that is that Blizzard removed the ranged weapon slot for all characters. Can no longer equip a melee weapon and a ranged weapon at the same time.
I doubt they would ever bring the dead zone back, but then again you never know. But they could definitely do it and would HAVE to give us melee weapon slots back. It would be strange slapping someone with your Gun / Bow and dazing them, although i could see blizzard being lazy and doing that actually… lol
Not gonna argue “ranged vs. melee” with you here. Nor do I have any intention of opting for current SV to be removed.
But I find this comment of yours…I don’t know…interesting(?).
How come you say this? I mean yeah, we never know what choices Blizz would do ofc so no guarantees there. But if you look solely towards the past design of the spec and think of what it could naturally have evolved into, with the new philosophies and the paradigm of deeper exploration of individual spec identities and fantasies.
Why couldn’t it be just as good or, in some ways, even better than what it was prior to Legion?
<3
Pretty much.
It’s about them deciding whether they should divert resources for such a thing.
They’re not saying it couldn’t be just as good as it used to be. They’re basically saying there is a possibility that it could be mediocre at best and terribad at worst.
I guess I’m still in some small way hopeful that they will actually listen to feedback. Not only for how we want RSV back, but also in terms of what we want it to be like.
It’s sad how this is what’s being expected regarding future development and design.
