In both length and players required? It seems the major draw of m+, is how accessible it is. You do not need to schedule a week in advance to have everyone there on time.
By reducing how long a raid takes (remove trash mobs/less bosses) and party size (8 seems to work well), would raid participation increase?
There’s nothing wrong with the current raid system. You can easily PUG up through AotC and the only thing that requires planning is late-prog mythic boss fights.
Normally I would agree, but the current raid can easily be cleared in 1.5 hrs - 2 hrs (probably faster for some groups) after you get past progression which I think is pretty reasonable for a raid tier.
Also, I think 10-30 is pretty good for LFR-Heroic raid size. Making it smaller would only make the healer/tank shortage worse
Honestly, I’d rather they just get rid of the trend where the first 2-3 bosses of Mythic are easier to get than AotC.
I’d like to see a 10man mythic mode. I have plenty of friends who enjoy raiding, but we wont be gathering 20+ folks for it
Personally I’d like 10 man raids to return, they could also make it more appealing by eliminating completely unnecessary runs all the way back to bosses after wipes and find a way to make summons a thing inside the raids without the need of a warlock.
Yes there is: Mythic should be flex as well. The hard 20 seat is a mistake in a game this old.
Why? Normal and heroic are flex, those are accessible. The 20 man set point for mythic makes sense to account for the mechanics and making sure you have the class diversity and cooldowns to do them.
What about the duration? Such as trash mobs and size of raid.
Because Normal and Heroic are brain-dead easy and roll over in a few days; Mythic is the only challenge in the game.
But Mythic should scale with raid size like the others. The worst thing about Mythic is that you need more than 20 people on the team to regularly do it, but only 20 people can squeeze into the instance, which means MULTIPLE people every raid are being told “you can’t play”.
It sucks. It needs to scale like the other difficulties, it was a good change when they added scaling-to-size in 6.0, their only mistake was not doing it to all the difficulties.
With us being now at 13 classes I think it could be argued raid sizes should go up to more easily accommodate everyone.
For normal/heroic you have loot lockouts so you can do as many or few bosses as you want. I don’t understand how it can be “too long” when you can just do a few at a time.
Also, there is 1 trash set in Aberrus that I would consider “long” and that is to Assault. The rest are between 1-3 pulls depending on how your tanks pull and if your raid uses dps cool downs and hero on trash like they should since you can reset every boss.
Mythic is a set number for tuning and mechanic purposes. By knowing you have 20 people, they can assume you have every class and they build encounters a with that in mind instead of assuming you don’t have every class, like in normal and heroic. If someone truly wanted to raid mythic, they’d already be doing so.
Flex wouldn’t help with the roster boss anyway because guides would be written with whatever number of players makes the fight the easiest.
Except the tuning and mechanics for Mythic are crap.
You can’t hold up Mythic as some paragon of game design that must be cherished and preserved. Mythic is a steaming mess at this point.
You clearly don’t like it so then just don’t do it. I’ve personally been enjoying mythic raiding since Emerald Nightmare.
Yeah…I don’t know why mythic gets put on a pedestal of tuning when it’s the difficulty that tends to have the most changes and issues.
/laughs in Zskarn.
What about them? 8-11 bosses over a 6 month period? The trash is also fine if you know what it is and does. The trash has the same mechanics as the boss leading too it so you have a visual representation and knowledge of what they are and do.
How would that work with cooldown tuning? It doesn’t hence the 20 man size in order to account for that.
And yet the common arguement made is that its too hard now and an arms race between devs and player. The first few mythic bosses are actually easier than the last 2 of heroic.
Or Neltharion.
Or Sark.
Aberrus on Heroic & under might have been easier than normal, but on Mythic it’s had 4 extremely annoying and problematic encounters. Out of 9. That’s not a good batting average.
The only people saying that are people who don’t raid and just lift talking points from streamers.
I say this because every time I ask people what these mechanics are that are “an arms race between devs and player” they can never name any.
I do agree with you on this and honestly I think people wanting to change mythic raiding as a whole are the same type of people.
Here’s the key thing: How many guild masters do you think actually enjoy telling their friends “you can’t play”?
Because as somebody who’s had to do that for years, now, I’m sick of it.