Should player cast times be eliminated?

The general consensus right now is that ranged sucks right now. Because of cast times and the constant movement it just sucks. It’s not fun. I know, I know get gud scrub. Being able to do DPS and still move is possible, but its just frustrating and makes you want to swap to a ret pally.

What if all casts were instant like Diablo style. If they don’t want abilities spammed, introduce a cooldown equal to the cast time of the ability. So if it has a 2 second cast it gets a 2 second cooldown now.

I’m not sure what to do for pvp and interrupts, but if they insist on all the constant movement in PvE something is going to have to give. Either tone down the constant movement so ranged players can actually enjoy the game, or move ranged players to a more BM like playstyle. Caster numbers seem to be getting worse and worse. I don’t see anything changing that in the time being.

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They just need to tone down ground effects and forced move-or-die.

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:thinking: Wait a second…

HUMAN Paladin? My brother must be a shapeshifter.

I’m still a dwarf! I just got a new helmet from vault and havent xmogged it yet!.. and for some reason it still reads as human…

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Eh, it doesn’t bother me and I play Destro, which is as hard cast as you can get.

My game is finding the nooks and crannies to stand in while the floor boils around me and do my casts. I rely on lighting up my Burning Rush to move and get me out of trouble.

During some special abilities, yea, it’s run around like a chicken getting what little I can off. But they eventually quiet down and I feed them Chaos Bolts all day long.

I have long range, I can move where I need to be most of the time and let the fight come to me.

The only time it’s a “problem” (and it’s not really that) is during lowbie dungeons where the tank is pulling everything in sight. I just run along and wait for him to stop and unleash AOE fun and games on the tumult of mobs beating on him.

This was not what they wanted. What they wanted was ranged to suffer a penalty for the safety of being ranged.

If you are good enough to manage not standing in things, you probably should. Usually it is the other way around where a ranged tries melee and just bathes in ground effects.

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Yeah, like I said it’s possible to find open spots but it’s not fun and ends up being frustrating more times than not. And that’s the problem

Think you might have a point.

… and actually, TBH, I predicted it would come to this some years ago. That as movement demands got toned ever upwards - as they must, as the game must continue to provide a challenge for those who have mastered the previous challenges over the years - this is pretty much inevitable. Doubly so for a game like WoW, where the business model expects continuous daily/weekly play, so there’s no “getting rusty” for the target audience now is there?

Thus eventually, the traditional cast bar must become too heavy an albatross around the paradigm’s neck; there just isn’t going to be room to accommodate such large numbers of 2-3 second forced stops.

Blizzard sometimes seems to get this, as when they started rolling out all those “cast while moving” abilities and even allowed Ele Shaman to cast Lightning Bolt while moving as a standard feature at one point, but then they backpedaled on it (another one of those decisions like removing Justice/Valor which seem very mysterious in retrospect) …

Even FFXIV is no bed of roses lately, Pandemonium this xpac has been excoriated by the caster and ranged community for catering so heavily to melee (through things like huge hit boxes - keeping in mind that XIV raid arenas are normally a lot smaller than WoW’s, so a boss with a huge hit box = “you can melee it from almost anywhere” - or dropping positional hit requirements which are a widespread class feature of XIV melee) that there feels like little point to casters (or even worse off, ranged physical, since Square Enix actually recognized that those classes should have a penalty to potential DPS to make up for both being ranged and having instant attacks, vs. Blizzard who basically always lets Hunters have their cake and eat it too).

This on top of the fact that their casters (especially Black Mages) often pretty much can’t shine until AFTER a fight is cleared and on farm, because it’s so essential to know the fight timeline down to the second in order to fit one’s casts around it (note that FFXIV’s apparently slower pace is an illusion: most of that time is there because the server needs stupid amounts of time to acknowledge state changes, so you usually don’t really have more time to react like it might look like to a player who isn’t familiar with both games).

At this rate it almost does feel like in the long run, we’re going to be pushed to the traditional fantasy of “sorcerers are only the bad guys” and heroic people (other than the healers, anyway) use physical weapons …

But as usual I’m not sure what the design solution really is, here. If you make the mechanics less frenetic, then maintaining a challenge curve over the years means that DPS has to be correspondingly more emphasized instead, and that in turn means justifying so many of the more negative player behaviors (particularly, the stereotypical needing more hardware than NATO to count on being able to join a PUG, and parse ranks being even more of a be-all and end-all metric, the latter of which is already the case in FFXIV where the aforementioned slow “server tick” system heavily limits complex fast-paced mechanic design).

2 Likes

Let us cast everything on the run. Problem solved.

I think the main problem is the overuse of dodge the swirly mechanics, also know as move or die.

I wouldn’t completely remove cast times, but making some casts instant, and perhaps having more procs to make some casts instant, would certainly make casters more enjoyable.

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Problem with procs is that you can’t rely on them to be available when it’s time to move

I agree, make all spells instant cast.

-all PvP casters

I think at this point in the game you should be able to move and cast spells at the same time. So many casters right now are relying on instants anyway.

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No. Casters and melee each have a tradeoff. The tradeoff for casters is that they have flexibility in positioning but are restricted with movement. Melee is the opposite, they have a lot of freedom of movement but are more restricted in where they can position themselves. Unless you’re willing to advocate for melees to be able to attack from range, I don’t see how this idea doesn’t fundamentally upset the balance of the game.

If you want to play without cast times, play a melee.

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nah, we just need casting on the move.

Not every spell, but like MoP or similar.

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Raids heavily favor ranged dps for 17 years
Ranged DPS: Melee dps just have to git gud
One raid tier favors melee DPS
Ranged DPS: OMG this is so terrible! I have to do mechanics!? Blizzard, please change the entire paradigm of caster DPS!

Sounds like Ranged DPS just have to “git gud” :slight_smile:

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That tradeoff is not on equal ground. At all. And it has become worse with each expansion since the end of MoP, when they did a 180 on casters being able to move while casting.

Upset the balance of the game…lmao…what balance…

Yeah I think this is a big part of it. Mechanics creep has set in, and should especially be toned down some now that they are limiting computational addons.

No, that will break casters in PvP.

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The general consensus is casters are bad?? Who says this?