Question about mythic raiding, let’s have a discussion.
People sell mythic raid carries, which to me says they are under tuned. If you can complete a mythic raid with dead weight then it needs a bit more
I think mythic raids, should require all cylinders firing at one hundred percent, and thus you should need every player coordinated and working together
Why should the hardest content be easy enough you can literally do it with less players than intended?
Eventually you out gear any content, this is how people are able to sell carries. The only way to change that would be to make the raids scale up with gear but then what would be the point of gearing up only to make it more difficult to complete?
I personally think that challenging content is great and having content that is maybe even more difficult than Mythic would be a good thing for those looking for something more.
That being said, I think there needs to be a line somewhere. If you continue to push the difficulty of mythic raids higher and higher, you’re eventually going to notice the mythic raid player pool start to shrink as people aren’t able to adapt to these increasingly difficult encounters.
It’s a balancing act for the developers. It’s all well and good to have difficult content but when you start to make it so difficult that you only see a fraction of a percent of players doing it… it becomes an issue of is it worth it to invest resources into content so few will see?
As for mythic carries, those have always been a thing. As raid teams pick up more and more gear the fights get easier and easier until it’s trivial to bring in a carry. And imo that’s fine. It’s a good way to fund guild repair coffers and things like consumables for raid prog.
I think the difficulty of mythic is probably about right. Perhaps a smoother curve over the 8 bosses in Ep would have been better or rather sivara being 3rd instead of first.
As for carries no one is carrying anyone the first or second time they kill a boss because they have be firing on all cylinders. After you do something 10 times and her 10 full cleares worth of loot behind you it will of course be easier.
In principle for what you see as something that should be impossible (carrying) to be made actually impossible, would also take the number of team able to clear it down to about 200-300 total. Because to make it that hard would be to necessitate that any deaths what-so-ever during a pull result in a wipe.
That level of difficulty would only be passable with the full perfect gearing compliment looted and equipped which would mean reclearing each boss every week for loot and never locking out.
It’s not easy to carry right now through mythic. It just isn’t. There are very few teams that can actually sell anything past the first 3 bosses. And its not like they are taking 5 people to Queen and killing it. Maybe one person for a really good team and two for the best teams and 3 if they are legends.
The problem with the level of tuning you are asking for is class balance. The classes are in an ever changed flux from raid to raid. If you tuned the raid so tightly that having a single carry is actually impossible; what you’re actually doing is saying that only the classes that are over performing in that tier are allowed to raid.
So if a hunter is capping out at 40k dps and warlocks at 44k, that doesn’t even sound like much of a difference, right? Except you cannot even carry one extra person now. 4k DPS difference over 14 DPS in the raid is roughly 56k; meaning if you bring just a few people who are not in the top 5, you are no longer numerically capable of finishing the raid.
This problem would be persistent with healers and tanks as well. It already is among the top 100 and copy cat guilds. It would turn it into a huge joke. Blizzard already are notoriously bad at class and spec balance. Tuning encounters so tightly that there is no wiggle would destroy the raid scene at the mythic level.
Eventually you out gear any content, this is how people are able to sell carries. The only way to change that would be to make the raids scale up with gear but then what would be the point of gearing up only to make it more difficult to complete?
This is purely a philosophical and more rhetorical question;
However, isn’t the difficulty the reason Mythic raids were created? To be the highest test of player skill and coordination?
A raid that continually scaled would be the grail of raiding based on that logic wouldn’t it?
you’re right, mythic raiding is too hard. they aren’t selling carries soon enough and they are too expensive so the raid should be tuned down so that i can buy carries sooner and cheaper.
what exactly would you scale? things on mythic already hit hard enough to one shot you; you won’t be surviving any tentacles on zacool without a major CD and the health pool of 440+ equipped with a stam buff in the current game. tack on an extra 100% for what?
increasing the damage mechanics do wouldn’t change anything, and increasing boss health just extends the encounters
It should be reasonable. There’s no point in making specific mechanics that only 0.001% of players would ever see or beat. May as well delete that tier, it’s a waste of developers time at that point.
Even today’s mythic raids barely see 1-2% cutting edge rates. I still think it is a bit too low. You could argue that’s what lfr/normal/heroic are for, but still, you’re talking about a lot of development time for an insanely small segment of players.
i don’t think mythic fights specifically are a “lot of development time”
not saying that encounters aren’t difficult to make, they are. however, and preface this with me having absolutely no experience making video games, i would consider most of the “leg work” done with the lower difficulties
im not sure what i would consider a good % of players that have CE. it is strange, that so few players ever do the hardest thing; it’d be like a dark souls game where almost no one used NG+ or almost no accounts ever kindled the “last boss” bonfire
I think the point that OP is trying to make is that they are not hard enough.
That point is further made by this statement right here
That statement right there implies that OP does infact say that they are not hard enough and should be buffed.
OP FURTHER goes on to say how he/she thinks that they are a bit too easy and how it should be harder.
Then OP goes on even further to say how they are too easy and should not be that way.
OPs thread contradicts that title. The title mentions it being hard, and yet OP talks about how easy it is and how to make it harder.
I for one don’t really get what OP was on about here. They make a title saying how they shouldn’t be so hard, then make a thread about how to make them harder.
If OP had made the title “Should mythic raiding be this easy” Then the thread would have made more sense. And they introduced themselves as though we should know them but I don’t think anyone does.
Mythic Plus has a loot chest at the end of the week that bumps up the item level of the highest mythic plus you did for that week. Thus is if you did 430 level content you would have a 440 in your chest. A few weeks of that and you may be decked out in 440’s and can go for higher content. After a while under this system you over gear the content quickly and can afford to carry lower level players.
However if you only raid there is no such gearing hand out’s to help you from level to level. So heroic raiders get stuck not being about to gear up enough to attempt or make it far into mythic. They have to do Mythic Plus for the trasitional gear.
Since both schools have the same chances to warforge up and both have the same access to warfront events. Raiders right now have a serious disadvantage. Some raiders are attempting to run Mythic Plus’s but find themselves being blocked out due to low IO score in the limited time that they are not raiding.
Right now you can:
Do mythic plus for great gear.
Do raids and a weekly mythic plus for the chest.
or
Raid only and be a burden on your raid team. Let’s face it the system forces you into Mythic Plus. Some people don’t even want to go into mythic plus at all and hate the system. The Mythic plus community does not make it easy with the work your way up additude that does not lend it self well to the Raiding sceduale. And usually since their is only 2 tanks the guild high up’s get the guild mythic runs.
It’s really all Blizzards fault for:
A: Punishing keys that fail
B: Getting rid of the follower quests they had in Legion for gear upgrades for raiders.
(NM I mis-read the OP’s post, this all still stands my babble about transitional gear and all, sorry for the confusion)