Those are two absolutely different view-points in how to run the guild. It would be hard to come to a compromise on something like that with two mutually exclusive goals.
If you don’t want to rip the guild apart a good compromise may be to promote him back, and allow him to recruit and run his own raid or mythic+ group. Something small and tight knit that he can be a part of and have control over, while simultaneously being part of a large guild as a whole. It would benefit both of you.
Your guild will have a dedicated group for end-game content, while he would hav a larger pool to fill spots when one opens, or if they need to sub somebody for an absence. It’s a win-win.
Contact the Officer of the Guild you are Guild Leading, and ask her exactly why she revoked YOUR demotion of that individual.
Detail exactly why you demoted the individual, and re-demote them. Do not look weak in the face of your Officers. Enforce your ideals. The Guild is yours, nobody else’s; That’s the harsh reality of it. Other people may have a say, or vote, etc, under your leadership, but it’s exactly that: Your leadership.
If this person is so contradictory to your current view on the way the Guild should be ran, boot them. If they are constantly contradicting you and trying to push their own agenda, they need to go out and make their own Guild.
Keeping somebody like that around will only lead to further conflict, and strife. However, be warned, because speaking from experience, this usually ends up being the hardest thing to do (kicking them.) That being, because usually people grow attached to other people. Whether it was with lies, promises, them being a cool person, etc. There may be people who leave to follow that other person, and that’s just a part of Guild Drama. Hopefully, they leave respectfully.
While this may be true, you ultimately have the final say in the matter. The Guild Leader has final legislative Law of a Guild, bar nobody else in said Guild. Yes, some people may think ‘less’ of you, if you go out of your way to do things however you see fit without anybody else’s opinion, but again: The Guild is YOURS.
Time, effort, energy, etc may be a team factor here, but everybody playing WoW knows that a Guild Leader could literally kick everybody from the Guild for zero reason and keep the Guild Bank to themselves if they so desired to. Not many people in my general understanding have ever done this, but yeah.
OP, it does sound like you have quite the choice to make. From where I stand, it’s simple. Write up a general understanding of the situation, and boot that person from the Guild. Or ask them to politely leave, and if they make Guild Drama like that public, then boot them on the spot.
Or, simply demote them and basically put them on ‘probation period’ where they can do nothing to rise up the ranks again–But still be a part of the Guild and all activities there-in.
First off, my GM says it like this. “This is my guild and my rules if you don’t like it you’re free to go somewhere else, I’m not keeping you here and perhaps this guild is not for you. If you stay though it’s my rules and you will keep your negativity to yourself. If you go spreading it around and try to create discord in the guild I will /gkick you in an instant.”
But TBH that first paragraph I quoted, it has a bit of an authoritarian sound to it. This isn’t Game of Thrones. If you promote people you trust and that shows sound judgment and loyalty to the guild. You shouldn’t be having these issues. And I really dislike your comments about how you wish to throw people into hell etc. Perhaps a guild leader role is not for you. Guild Leaders generally love their guild and nurture and grow it. You sound like you’re paranoid about your other Guild Leaders. You are the one that promoted them, if you choose wisely this would not be a problem. My GL is pretty much MIA and only shows up every few months to keep the guild. But he knows his officers have character and trust the guild in their hands because we know him and he knows us. I know what he expects of me and if I need to /gkick someone I have all authority to do so and I know he’s not going to be upset because I know very well what he expects of his Guild Officers.
You have work to do on your own managing of the guild if you are here asking these kinds of questions.
Well, that’s if the other GO knows why the was demoted. He may have tricked the other GO into promoting him back up if the other GO’s didn’t know the GL demoted him.
Having a guild web page with a Guild Officer section where the Guild Officers can read and discuss guild actions really helps here. We use to have a page just for people that were blacklisted. In fact we had a page with the name of every guild member that ever joined at one point.
For instance my GM would have posted that he demoted the offender and why in the Guild Officers forums that way everyone knew and there was no confusion about the situation.
Why would you re-promote someone the gm has demoted, without checking first? Surely the gm would have had a reason, and a little investigation before making an action would make sense.
Its like signing a form in your bosses name without him being there, you’re not really in the right place to do so, and should probably check first.
Well, that’s just it, perhaps they didn’t check first. It’s a mistake to assume if for some strange reason it was just lack of checking a simple “Hey, man, make sure you check from now on” goes a lot better than /gkicking an officer that has friends.
Kicking an officer on an assumption will make him look really bad in the guild eyes and the GM could find him/her self with half a guild real fast if the officer is really popular in the guild. I was mistreated really badly once, I got /gkicked for kicking the guy who owned the vent server. The guy was calling people the “N” word and he wouldn’t stop and told me to “F” off. So I /gkicked him. The GM ended up kicking me to get him to rejoin the guild, and when he did half the guild /gquit.
So best to make sure you are in the right and allow people a chance to fix their mistake.
We get it: You personally do not like the OP. You make this abundantly clear in every thread the OP makes. Just put them on ignore and leave them alone. This thread isn’t about you whatsoever, so this comment is just spam on your part. At worst, harassment at this point.
Edit: and to the people saying they would leave, that is a good thing! Guildies should get along, it’s a game. We’re all here to have fun, if a person is ruining your fun, get rid of them. If I’m ruining other peoples fun I hope they would tell me, so I could leave them in peace.
You decide the direction of the guild, who the officers are, and the primary goals of your guild.
Dissenting opinions are important! You should take time discuss these with your officer core when they arise. Being able to effectively argue your point in a collected manner is a skill you should hone. I personally tried to keep to 2 officer meetings a month, and 1 large townhall style guild meeting a month, as time and issues permits. You need to be able to freely share your vision of what you want the guild to be, and to make sure your officer core and general membership have similar ideals.
Once you promote officers who want to move in another direction, you risk losing what you set out to create.
The above is not necessarily a bad thing. People’s wants change from tier to tier, expansion to expansion. The want to go from a large guild to a smaller tight-knit guild sounds to me like that particular player views large guilds as ‘cesspools’ and may believe himself to be ‘wasting his own time’ with ‘lesser’ players. Or he may think that your less focused on what he wants to focus on.
In this particular instance, I would have talked to him, explain what I wanted my guild to be, and if he disagreed with that vision, then he’s free to go elsewhere.
If this continues to become a trend, then your recruitment needs to be looked at. Clearly, when you are recruiting people, the main goals are not being properly addressed, or more likely, when the recruits ask questions, no straight answers are given, and confusion is born from there.
1 - Step back from the situation and remain calm.
2 - Evaluate if the player makes any good points. Is he coming from a good place or is it malicious?
3 - Educate him that you do value his opinions and that your always willing to listen but that you need the guild to function smoothly and to do that he can not cause undue trouble.
From there on if he does anything untoward you can feel that you’ve given him warnings, you demoted him, you made it clear what his expectations were, and that his choices led to the gkick.
Don’t Gkick without a good reason, make sure your guild understands the reasons why, (just a simple “I talked to him about Blah-blah-blah and then he Blah-blah-blah, then I talked to him again and he Blah-blah-blah, Out of respect I won’t go into it further unless I have to” ) and cover your @ss by screenshotting the conversations with him for when/if he whispers everyone saying you kicked him because your a racist/homophobe/tyrannical/hitler/etc…
Just stay calm and act as responsibly as possible.
Honestly this is more concerning to me than anything else. Talk about undermining you and making you look like you have no authority in your own guild.
